Amp questions

[Dacious]

Yeah that’s why I took it to my tech . I’ve actually always been sensitive to different noise frequencies. I also blame it on that big old Mesa . My tech said the fender is running like it should but the vintage 30s isn’t a very good match for it . I plugged them into the Mesa the other night and even the Mesa was a lot brighter. I think I just don’t like the speakers because I like the sound of the 15” in the twin

The Vintage 30s are probably one of the least best speakers - they have an upper mid spike that is nasally unpleasant in many amps. They're not known for big bottom end either.

I agree with Wally - normally with any decent level of volume you couldn't get mids and bass that high, or it'd be very unmusical. Unless you're trying to replicate Mesa tone, which you never will with that amp.

 

[jed mac]

The Vintage 30s are probably one of the least best speakers - they have an upper mid spike that is nasally unpleasant in many amps. They're not known for big bottom end either.

I agree with Wally - normally with any decent level of volume you couldn't get mids and bass that high, or it'd be very unmusical. Unless you're trying to replicate Mesa tone, which you never will with that amp.

Like it’s partly the speakers and the fact I need new preamp tubes . I have the bass up to help counter the high end of the speakers. My friends 72 twin is also ungodly bright with his jbls and he only had his treble at three. I want to try something like those red back wgs or a cannabis Rex speakers in the fender or even an cream back

 

[jed mac]

Bingo.

Try playing with that knob (and the volume), those are going to be your friends in your quest to tame the Twin. I used to play wide open all the time and tried to tweak the amps to compensate, I think partially because I used to be more of a Strat guy and for some reason vintage Strats don't have the bridge pickup wired to a tone knob, so I'd always set the amp up so the wide open bridge p/u wouldn't shred my eardrums. When I switched to mainly Teles, it took me a long time to really explore the full potential of the tone knob. These days, when adjusting to a different room, my approach is to start with the tone knob all the way closed, then gradually open it up until I have the right amount of treble, as opposed to the other way around. Something cool happens with a tele when you roll the tone off on the bridge pickup. It's still plenty bright, but the ice pick is replaced by this fat, syrupy bark. Who knows - may not work for you, but it's worth a shot!

I like the volume at 2.5 ish . And master at 3ish . It makes it usable . I can get smooth from the fender but the vintage 30s are just bright speakers and I’m pretty sure they are new speakers that where bought them sold with the amp .

The previous owner didn’t like them and was using the red basket wgs speakers and he said “the fender sounded much better with them than the vintage 30s”

So it really wouldn’t surprise me if the speakers weren’t broke in yet.

You see the story I got was as followed.

Bobby had the original speakers a year ago last September, then Bobby got the vintage 30s put in it . He then sold it to his friend Ashley and he sent it to get serviced to a guy named troy but didn’t bother fixing the tremolo. Ashley threw in a of those red baskets wgs American voiced speakers and almost decided to keep it he like it that much with the fender .

I bought it in September because I wanted a fender and came up with some extra cash. I started having issues with so I took it to my tech who tore it apart and determined the amp was functional like should be beside the broken tremolo that he fixed.

His comment was “ yeah those vintage 30s are really bright “ and determined that 3 or four preamp tube are on their way out . The power tubes are fine .

Next month I plan on getting the preamp section retubed and a new set of speakers or a single speaker for now.

From what I’m told the vintage 30s are known to be a bright and almost ice pick sound speaker until the are really warm in .

The vintage 30s would be good for something like my Mesa that is naturally darker than the fender and actually sounds pretty good with the Mesa.

I’m also told the vintage 30s are more used for Marshall and Mesa style amplifiers so why they put them in a twin is beyond me .

Now I should say after using it and my ears have become accustomed to to the twin I can play it with the treble at 5 or 6 .

The fact is it’s just a different amp from my old Mesa and I was use to the big boomy sound of the 15” that there is no way to recreate with the twin nor can I make the Mesa sound like the twin .

 

[InstantCoffeeBlue]

I had a hard time following the story about the previous owner(s), but if the WGS speakers you're referencing are the G12C/S, yes, I agree those would be a better match IMO. The ET65 is actually the one they most often recommend for silverface Twins, though.

12" ET65 - 65 Watts | Warehouse Guitar Speakers

You might try swapping one of those speakers in and leaving one of your Vet 30s in just for kicks - just swapping in one speaker may give you enough of a tweak to make it satisfactory without having to splurge on two speakers.

 

[JIMMY JAZZMAN]

It doesn't get any brighter than a Twin.

Yes it does, a Vox AC15 CAN BE VERY BRIGHT.

 

[LeDocteur]

So I have two amps a Mesa and a fender View attachment 964939

Both amps use the same tube combinations ,but yet the fender is far brighter than the Mesa .

Even when you plug the two twelves into the Mesa it’s still not nearly as bright as the fender but you do hear a huge difference.

Does this have anything to do with your brand of tubes or strictly wiring and capacitors used?

It may sound weird but I still find the fender kind of bright and the Mesa kinda dark .

I do know if you play the both together it sounds really good, like a happy in between sound and I’d love to find an amp right in the middle between the Mesa and fender.

Um there’s no way I’m replacing the 15” in my Mesa but another option would be a speaker upgrade in the twin but it’s currently using vintage 30s and I don’t feel the love for them.

The 15” in my Mesa I actually really like for bluesy stuff but Is in need of a few power tubes some are going microphonic and never thought of it when when I had it serviced .

Would a different brand of power tubes brighten it up some ? It currently has Mesa boogie str 440 6l6gc in it.

The fender has a perfectly match mixed matched set of three sovtek and a single groove tube 6l6 gc power tube .

I don’t know how the previous owner manage two get a random gt tube with the same rating as the sovtek Tubes.

Anyhow thanks for reading my ramblings and any advice would be appreciated

Sell them both and get a Triamp MKII and a 4x12.

Your ears and your back will appreciate the change.

 

[jed mac]

Sell them both and get a Triamp MKII and a 4x12.

Your ears and your back will appreciate the change.

Nope not a chance I haven’t played a Hughes & Kettner I like . There was one at the music store a few years back and I found it really dead sounding

 

[jed mac]

I had a hard time following the story about the previous owner(s), but if the WGS speakers you're referencing are the G12C/S, yes, I agree those would be a better match IMO. The ET65 is actually the one they most often recommend for silverface Twins, though.

12" ET65 - 65 Watts | Warehouse Guitar Speakers

View attachment 965320
You might try swapping one of those speakers in and leaving one of your Vet 30s in just for kicks - just swapping in one speaker may give you enough of a tweak to make it satisfactory without having to splurge on two speakers.

Well that’s an idea because then you’ll be able to keep some of the highs and add some lows .

But would the frequencies match up?

 

[InstantCoffeeBlue]

Well that’s an idea because then you’ll be able to keep some of the highs and add some lows .

But would the frequencies match up?

Only one way to find out. FWIW, WGS actually recommends pairing the ET65 with the Veteran 30 which is their version of the Celestion V30. I've mixed speakers in 2x12s and 4x12s and have gotten great results from pairing speakers with different characteristics.

 

[LOSTVENTURE]

Friend of mine had a blackface twin with JBL’s…painful treble. Just nasty icepick.

I had a JBL loaded Twin back in the seventies. It was bright, but the tone controls let me keep it under control.
And, I've tried to like the Mesa, but getting a good clean tone was too much of an effort.

 

[jed mac]

Only one way to find out. FWIW, WGS actually recommends pairing the ET65 with the Veteran 30 which is their version of the Celestion V30. I've mixed speakers in 2x12s and 4x12s and have gotten great results from pairing speakers with different characteristics.

When I email celestian a little while back I got this in response


FW: Enquiry: Dr Decibel
Hi Jared
What I'd suggest is that you swap out one of the Vintage 30s
for an A-Type. That would round out the low end considerably
and soften the treble a little.
If you wanted to go up a level in feel (and cost) go for an Alnico
Cream instead of the A-Type. Alnico speakers tend to give you
a bit more room to breathe - they're a bit more "organic"
sounding.
Regards,
Dr. Decibel
Celestion, Claydon Business Park, Great Blakenham, Ipswich
IP6 ONL, UK
T: +44 (0) 1473 835300 W: www.celestion.com

Jed is just a nickname I had since high school

I had a JBL loaded Twin back in the seventies. It was bright, but the tone controls let me keep it under control.
And, I've tried to like the Mesa, but getting a good clean tone was too much of an effort.

Yeah the Mesa can’t do fender clean

 

[jed mac]

Only one way to find out. FWIW, WGS actually recommends pairing the ET65 with the Veteran 30 which is their version of the Celestion V30. I've mixed speakers in 2x12s and 4x12s and have gotten great results from pairing speakers with different characteristics.

Wgs 612c/s will work it’s only off .5db from the vintage 30 at 99.5db and the vintage 30 is 100db

 

[LeDocteur]

Nope not a chance I haven’t played a Hughes & Kettner I like . There was one at the music store a few years back and I found it really dead sounding

Wow, I have exactly the opposite experience. My MKII makes everything sound great.

 

[Guitarteach]

My old mesa is bright if I want it to be, pull out the bright switch on the input and keep it around 5-6.

Is there a presence control on the back too?

Mesas can have a lot of fatness in the mids.. why they sing and punch through when cranked with a band. Scooped tones are lost. you can EQ out some mids with the graphic too on yours.

 

[jed mac]

Wow, I have exactly the opposite experience. My MKII makes everything sound great.

I think it’s just because I compared everything to a single 15

 

[jed mac]

My old mesa is bright if I want it to be, pull out the bright switch on the input and keep it around 5-6.

Is there a presence control on the back too?

Mesas can have a lot of fatness in the mids.. why they sing and punch through when cranked with a band. Scooped tones are lost. you can EQ out some mids with the graphic too on yours.

After the servicing it’s plenty bright

 

[northernguitar]

Sorry, friend...tubes are not tone cartridges.

 

[jed mac]

Sorry, friend...tubes are not tone cartridges.

Yeah I’m learning that lol.

If you don’t ask you’ll never know. I’ve only used one amp for 7 years so learning another amp was tough