Amp in a Box question

Discussion in 'The Stomp Box' started by schenkadere, Sep 19, 2019.

  1. schenkadere

    schenkadere Friend of Leo's

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    Seems to me it would be important to inform consumers exactly which amplifier the stomp is designed for? A Marshall in a box is going to sound different into a Fender or a Vox or tube vs solid state. Never really got the amp in a box concept unless it has an EQ that overrides the amps natural character.

    Am I seeing this all wrong or missing something?
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  2. teletimetx

    teletimetx Doctor of Teleocity

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    I don't know if you're missing something or not, but just from a quick, way-older-than-you-guy check of the interwebz, it seemed to me that it's pretty easy to gather the kind of info you seem to be searching for, and for many pedals, it seems to be encoded in the name of the pedal to begin with.
    Easy research - the first link is a list of amp-in-box pedals with the corresponding amp:


    http://www.thecavanproject.com/definitive-amp-box-effect-list/

    https://pedals.thedelimagazine.com/...-extra-boost-in-2017-compare-prices-and-tone/

    Pedal names - uh, Catalinbread's 5f6a? Lovepedal's Deluxe? Carl Martin's AC Tone or Plexi Tone?

    But maybe I'm missing something, too - are there specific examples of pedals that seem to obscure their function?

    Or maybe it's just the idea that a really good EQ could achieve the same practical effect of any 10 amp in box boxes?
     
  3. SolidSteak

    SolidSteak Friend of Leo's

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    I think he means something more like, "what amp is best to use with the Catalinbread 5f6a?" It probably does sound different through a Marshall than through a Twin, but I guess it's up to the user to adjust the pedal and amp until they think "this sounds like a 5f6a."
     
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  4. SolidSteak

    SolidSteak Friend of Leo's

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    FWIW I think most of those character type pedals work best into a clean, slightly scooped amp sound of unspecified brand. Or a power amp like the Tech 21 Power Engine, or a PA.
     
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  5. djh22

    djh22 Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

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    hqdefault.jpg
     
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  6. schenkadere

    schenkadere Friend of Leo's

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  7. schenkadere

    schenkadere Friend of Leo's

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    Exactly. Seems like important information in choosing a pedal like that. Even a Fender style tube amp will have a very different response than a SS Power Engine type.
     
  8. W.L.Weller

    W.L.Weller Tele-Holic

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    I assume most of these pedals were made with this use case in mind, or "plug into the Power Amp input on a SS amp" rather than "make your Twin sound like a Plexi," but you could fill some kind of building with all the stuff I don't know.

    Buy used, twist knobs on the guitar, pedal and amp until it sounds good. If it doesn't, sell it on down the river.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
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  9. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

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    Well, now you just know what the average vendor would probably put in their marketing/advertising - their emulator works equally well with all amps (or non-amp setups)! :lol:

    In all seriousness, I'd think they'd want to not be explicit about that, because that will cut down the number of potential customers.

    Besides, some guitarists seem to love to not adhere to any kind of rules with rig best practices. Aren't there at least a few folks here who use a Les Lius or F#5 into a 5E3 or some other type of tweed Fender amp?

    If a vendor tried to describe an optimal rig for the average amp emulator, to really get at an accurate sonic facsimile, and the right feel, and the right response, that would probably exclude over 90% of the available gear options.

    And - how do you target "best sound" for an emulation of something that you might not actually know how it sounds? Case in point would be all the D-style stuff, or some Trainwreck emulation, when Ken Fisher only made a small number of them, or something less common to the average user, like a HiWatt or something?

    ...IMO, it quickly becomes clear that how many of these boxes are pressed into service basically reduces them to just another flavor of dirt box.

    The other one that I personally find curious is when someone tries to use some sort of mid-scooped BF/SF Fender emulator thingie with just about any midrange-laden (traditional) amp that breaks up early.
     
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  10. schenkadere

    schenkadere Friend of Leo's

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    Yes and yes!!! That’s what I mean. I get your point about alienating or reducing your market by being too specific, but I can’t help but think how many people are either disappointed or just convince themselves of what they are hearing.

    I totally get the value of the Tech 21 offerings, for example, and their clones I guess too. Going direct and achieving a amp character. That’s great. That makes sense. The Power Engine concept too. That makes sense. With that model you could have a pedal board of different flavor amps.
     
  11. djh22

    djh22 Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

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  12. schenkadere

    schenkadere Friend of Leo's

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    Maybe we should call Myth Busters.
     
  13. Iago

    Iago Friend of Leo's

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    I think a good design would allow for a Marshall-in-a-box style OD pedal to sound Marshally no matter if you are playing it through a Vox or a Blackface Fender - different for sure, but still Marshally. I think many manufacturers out there do breadboard their circuits into a few different amps during development stage.
     
  14. Obsessed

    Obsessed Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I exclusively use amp-in-a-box pedals for OD/dirt nowadays and never going back. I think my great success is mainly due to the amps I play through for the given AIAB pedal. Notice the types of amps emulations and their heritage compared to the amps I play them through:

    My primary amps:
    Champ 12 (6L6)
    VHT S6U (Fenderish voiced 6V6)

    AIAB pedals:
    CB 5F6 (Bassman)
    CB Formula #5 (Tweed)
    Lovepedal JTM (Early Marshall JTM45)
    Tech 21 California (Mesa Mark II)
     
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  15. J-fish

    J-fish Tele-Meister

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    I think another thing to consider is, AIAB pedals might be tricky, or less immediate than standard type overdrive, but at least some of them, they are really just good sounding pedals. To me that's more important than emulation 100% correct of one amp or another
     
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  16. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

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    Yeah, it makes sense, because it's a "whole amp emulation," and IMO, accurate amp emulation includes the amp's output transformer, speaker(s), and cabinet.

    For pedals that either lack those parts, or allow you to bypass them altogether, to try and use one of these boxes with a traditional amp, that means dropping 30% more of the characteristics that give you that particular amp's sound.

    Something that I've (sort of sometimes unwillingly) dedicated (part of) the last 20+ years of my life to has been the testing of different cabinet and speaker combinations, with all sorts of amps, both traditional and non-traditional in design. I've also scratchbuilt or rebuilt amps to include various different types of power sections, which means focusing on the output transformer itself.

    ...With something like a Deluxe Reverb O.T., I've personally found that it simply will not produce a(n accurate) Marshall-type of sound, even if used with Celestion'ish speakers. I can certainly get a cool overdriven amp sound, and I prefer something like a DR OT more for overdriven sounds.

    I've also got a stereo 4X12 cabinet (wired vertical 2X12 pairs). One pair is Celestion-like, and the other is Jensen-like. I can almost completely "un-do" the tonal characteristics of my 2204'ish head through the Jensens, and it requires a complete adjustment of the tone knobs (vs. using the Celestions), and honestly just doesn't sound very good overdriven, no matter how it's set.

    IMO, it's only when you actually A/B an emulation to the real thing that you can even begin to determine how accurate it might be. And I want to repeat that I'm not saying these boxes don't sound good. For instance, I think that one needs to look no further than a Rat pedal to get a "Marshally type of sound," but it's not actually that accurate, and IMO, many of the emulators aren't, either (if used with any type of traditional amp setup).
     
  17. L.A. Mike

    L.A. Mike Tele-Afflicted

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    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
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