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Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by schmee, Jul 2, 2018.
Sure, but probably still sound like ass with an electric.
You know the rule.
Ass in, ass out.
With acoustics I think in terms of compromise. I have a guitar set up with a fishman rare earth pickup. It sounds pretty good through most anything and does a great job resisting feedback but it’s not a true acoustic sound.
With under saddle pickups I find without a dedicated amp or di box to the board my guitars without undersaddle pickips all have an annoying quack to them but these guitars do a great job of sounding like an acoustic when dialed in.
I play in an acoustic duo, but like to use electric guitars on certain songs. I'm using my fathers old Roland Cube 60 Keyboard amp. Does the trick for me. Has built in Reverb and two inputs, so I can either run two guitars or one guitar and a backing vocal mic. I do run through effects though to get the rights sounds for certain things.
I was seriously looking at the Limo, but can't remember if it was the lack of a Line Out or the battery issue that made me to keep on looking. In the end, it seems like a compromise for both types of guitars.
I'm not an expert with any of this, but I am interested in learning more on the subject.
Why does the amp need to connect to the PA? Why not have the mic hooked up to the PA and use something like a Boss Katana that has acoustic and electric guitar channels? If you have a valid reason, couldn't you patch in a DI box in the FX loop of the Katana and then run an XLR cable to the PA system? I don't think vocals through an amp would be all that great.
I've never played THAT amp, never even seen one in person, but I've played several Rivera amps and they're excellent amps! I can't see the Sedona not being awesome for your needs. The 25 watt Sedona Lite could be the ticket, as long as its loud enough on the acoustic side. Of course, assuming you have a decent enough PA, a good acoustic DI/Preamp like a Fishman Aura or LR Baggs for the acoustic and a Princeton Reverb for the electric would get it done too, but you asked about a 2 in 1 amp, so...
Boss Katana. Great acoustic channel, and very adaptable to any other sounds you want/need.
I thought of the Katana early on as well. I don't own one; I've only done the GC test drive thing. And I didn't play acoustic through it, so I know it has that channel, but can't speak to that personally. But the Katana doesn't have the separate mic channel that the OP was hoping for. So as a guitar amp it could very well work for his purposes, but as a "backup" PA, not so much.
It's nice to have the amp controls, but have the sound projected thru the PA also. Sometime the crowd noise is deafening! Especially in a place with all hard surfaces. Acoustic's tend to resonate/feedback if you turn up too loud standing in front of the amp, but the PA is higher and projected away and doesn't cause feedback. So the amp is kind of a "fill" and monitor really. The little amp gives you good monitoring of the guitar sound if nothing else.
Yes I can deal with mic adaptors etc to use any amp as a backup PA. XLR is a "nice to have" but not a "must have" if there are two channels in the amp. The best I've heard is the Bose L1 type system. Acoustic and vocal perfection. I'd like to avoid spending $1000-1500 though. I need 3 channels ; two vocal and one guitar.
Well, I bought a Katana 50, we'll see how I like it. What the heck... a bargain. $199 new/shipped! I'll just have to forego the PA backup thing. They list them as 2 channels but that seems bad info to me, there's only one input!
I've got my eye on the Katana Artist, still doing the homework on it. I was thinking that the Katana 100 was probably a better fit for what you want to do instead of the 50. The price of the 50 is hard to overlook though. The dedicated line out on the 100 should run out to the PA system just fine, whereas I'm not so sure on the line out on the 50. Maybe someone can speak to that? Are you using a sound hole plug on your acoustic?
I hope the headphone out will work to the PA. Yes soundhole plugged. The mini Loudbox is 60 watt and I never get near half way on the volume, so hopefully 50 watt will be ok.
Exactly, the impedance isn’t correctly matched.
Another thing to consider too: electric guitar amps are heavily biased towards the midrange just by virtue of the speaker in them whereas acoustic amps are more full-range. When I acoustified by Gretsch Electro with an LR Baggs Powerbridge, I did also get the preamp for it. I avoided the quackiness with it, but running it into an electric amp still didn’t sound like an acoustic because the speaker couldn’t reproduce all the frequencies. It actually sounded a lot the TVJ Classic Plus I have at the bridge, cleaned up and with the tone up. It’s still pretty useful for adding some fatness though even without an acoustic amp; blending in some piezo makes those TVJ’s sound like Dynas. Duane Eddy and Bo Diddley tone for days...
To make both the electric and acoustic guitars happy I'm using a Bose PA with Yamaha modelers for DI. It sounds great and isn't fussy to work with.
Well, I cancelled my Katana order. Just not sure yet and I do too much impulse buying. I play the Duo tomorrow and going to try a couple things, I'm thinking money may be better spent with upgrading PA equipment and plugging in, but need to experiment with the electric (not acoustic) to ferret that out.
Taking a break, I was looking at more acoustic amps and came across the Bugera AC60. In the MF reviews, someone even stated that his jazzbox sounded good through it and thinking it is because of the lack of a tweeter. Kind of lowend, but with the f/x loop, it seems plausible with the Class D design. Anyway, I am wading through this process with you @schmee .
BTW, good call on the Katana. Too many compromises with your requirements IMO. I know though with a gig coming up desperation kicks in. Good luck with your duo tomorrow.
The thing with these duo gigs is SIMPLICITY. So trying to not forget that. Right now I'm taking one small PA tower and it works well. It was cheap and another is the same price as the Katana 50... so it might be better to have two of those than an amp and a PA column.... thinking out loud.
This is outside your budget, but folks using Helix and Kemper want a FRFR cabinet-- "full range flat response"= P.A. speakers, essentially.
So, in other words, it is easier to get a P.A. system to sound like a real electric guitar amp rather than to get an electric guitar amp to sound like
a P.A. system. Why? Because a guitar amp is very mid-focused and there is no good way to restore highs. A P.A. system has a response range
from bass all the way up to that little bitty tweeter so it can easily handle the mid-range signal produced by an electric guitar, piano,or vocals.
And of course the P.A. should sound excellent for acoustic guitar provided you have a good pickup system and either on-board or external
So the obvious thing to do is get a P.A. of some type, and then some kind of simulator. There are any number of options ranging from super
expensive to cheaper-- here are some ideas--
- go with a powered P.A. speaker cabinet by Yamaha or Mackie.
- if you don't want to use a Kemper or Helix, Zoom (such as G3n), Tech21, Joyo all offer pedal-based solutions for getting a P.A. system to sound like an electric guitar amp.
- if you want more than one channel just buy a very cheap 4-channel mixer.
You could also go with something like Yamaha StagePAS, which is very affordable and sounds great. Again, you would need some kind of guitar amp simulator to
produce your electric guitar tones.
I'd consider just getting one of those Tech 21 Character pedals (Fender model - or JOYO American clone) and run the electric through that. You could probably dispense with the LM if all you're doing is monitoring guitars - 2 channel Behri mixer and a good powered monitor speaker. Send one main from the mixer to the monitor and one to the PA.