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Americans Invented Rock and Roll, But The British Perfected It. Fight me!

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by ElJay370, Sep 26, 2019.

  1. Norris Vulcan

    Norris Vulcan Tele-Afflicted

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    UK:


    USA:


    :D
     
  2. codamedia

    codamedia Poster Extraordinaire

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    From a Canadian perspective, this thread is quite amusing :)
     
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  3. Moriarty

    Moriarty Tele-Meister

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    Rush perfected prog. Don't fool yourself
    (Just kidding)
     
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  4. Moriarty

    Moriarty Tele-Meister

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    I'm pretty sure Prince and REM deserve some mention here
     
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  5. ElJay370

    ElJay370 Tele-Afflicted

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    No, it's not about profit or mass appeal...not really.

    It's more about advancement. Evolution.

    Example:

    This is one of my most favorite songs:



    It's pure in form and substance. Full of honesty and earnestness. It's beautiful.

    This is also one of my most favorite songs:



    This is about as far as the medium of guitar, bass, drums, and vocals can be taken, IMO. It has drama, movement, tension, release, virtuosity, power. It's not something that was tossed off just to appeal to the masses. It's a masterpiece.

    Neither one of these is a less valid musical statement than the other.

    But it's like comparing a piece of chocolate to a 5 course steak dinner. Both are delicious and satisfying in their own separate ways, but one is easily more challenging, complex, and dynamic than the other.

    And it's all rock and roll, dammit. :lol:
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  6. EllroyJames

    EllroyJames Friend of Leo's

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    It came from outer space.

     
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  7. Mick Sullivan

    Mick Sullivan Tele-Meister

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    I really should know that. I have Buck Owens sings Harlan Howard.
     
  8. Obsessed

    Obsessed Telefied Silver Supporter

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    I think @beagle and @ElJay370 are both courageously attempting to narrow some very specific ideas within a huge genre of music. Both could be considered correct if you squint your eyes, but historically and evolutionarily the issues are far too complex to place in shoeboxes. It makes for an interesting read of a thread, but can't really be resolved so simplistically. I doubt that any musician would want to be so narrowly departmentalized with their music.
     
  9. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Doctor of Teleocity

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    They play instruments there??
     
  10. Matthias

    Matthias Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

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    This argument is way too wide. I always find rating and ranking art weird anyway. But I’ll bite anyway.

    - The blues came from America (with African roots to the musical forms).
    - Rock n Roll came from America.
    - Surf rock came from that. In America.
    - Country came from America.

    Most rock music owes its biggest influences to these four strands. From my perspective/taste:

    - The British came along and created a a twist on it and a pop sound out of that. They also had a handful of good blues acts but a lot of were taking from earlier American acts and taking it into the pop charts. They’d probably find someone saying they perfected blues as sacrilege. Later, where the British perhaps were big originators of heavy metal, folk rock (of the Jethro Tull type) and prog, The American bands wrote the book on psychedelic, country and later blues rock sounds.
    - During the 70s, the UK went glam and rehashed 50s Rock and Roll again. Against all odds, they still contributed some lasting bands and artists
    - Punk was an American movement. The UK scene was short-lived, had it’s own flavour, and I’d say had no more of an influence on musical styles in the long run. The 80s were refreshing as US and UK bands were doing lots of interesting things each.
    - Then we got to the 90s and the Americans had alt rock and punk while, after some shoegazing, the UK’s biggest new rock scene was Britpop. Yay. But still the UK produced some acts that had influence worldwide even if they hadn’t ever managed to repeat the 60s British Invasion.

    So who wins? America got there first in most cases. So if those were the rules, they win. In most branches of rock, the UK produced some giants. But it comes down to taste as to whether you like the Brit sound or the American sound... A bit like amps! There were styles of rock that UK acts never convincingly got a foothold in. It’s sort of vice versa. But I’d swap most of Merseybeat for garage rock any day of the week. Maybe the Brits brought a whimsy and silliness to rock, but also perhaps led the way with pompousness. I much prefer American music in the late 60s and early 70s.

    The UK contributed a lot of huge bands that took rock in interesting directions. But rock split in so many directions in the 60s and 70s and I don’t think anyone was trying to perfect anything except their own work.

    So let’s narrow the argument a little. Did the UK perfect the specific genre (now subgenre) of Rock n Roll, as in, you know, THE Rock n Roll?

    Erm, no. Just... no.

    Did they take it in some interesting directions, later. Yes. So did America and a lot of other countries. Pick your favourite.

    Even Britpop.
     
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  11. Tonetele

    Tonetele Poster Extraordinaire

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    Here, Here!! Just look at The Beatles and the still ongoing Rolling Stones.
     
  12. Norris Vulcan

    Norris Vulcan Tele-Afflicted

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    TSRTS is a great track, and pushed some boundaries, but surely it's not the pinnacle of the artform. Things can develop a lot further, and have.

    But aren't we still hearing it's influence today? There are plenty of current bands who wear their Punk influences on their sleeves.
    I would say it was two movements - UK Punk and US Punk. Very different. The DIY 'anyone can play' attitude of Punk was an explosion.

    Two US composers who have had a huge influence on rock and modern music in general are John Cage and Steve Reich. No blues forms, but steeped in US, European and African traditions - big influence on The Beatles, Kraftwerk, Radiohead, Can, etc etc. That wider movement virtually created dance and electronica, which in turn fertilized rock music.
     
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  13. Jimclarke100

    Jimclarke100 Tele-Afflicted

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    Pretty sure that I read that Angus and Malcom were born and lived for a while as kids in Scotland (it was on the internet so it must be true j

    And Brian Johnson comes I believe from Newcastle, England
     
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  14. Jimclarke100

    Jimclarke100 Tele-Afflicted

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    Robert Johnson, Willie Dixon et al are progenitors of such a wide range of fantastic music from both sides of the big pond, and all round the globe.

    Really though Brits didn’t perfect Rock n Roll. The perfect rock n roll song is still being written by some spotty kid in a garage with his mates. To me and you guys maybe it’s utter rubbish, but to them it’s better than Stairway, better than Smells Like Teen Spirit, Better than Purple Haze.
     
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  15. Matthias

    Matthias Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

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    What I mean is 70s UK/US punk both had equal influence and yeah, we hear both all the time to this day. UK punk as a major movement didn’t last long but the subculture was very long-lasting though. It’s interesting how the DIY punk vibe got adopted into other stuff... Which shows that stuff evolves and nothing gets perfected as such, especially when the end result gets tagged a different genre. But yep indeed... The DIY ethos, or rather the interpretation of it, was something quite distinctive about the UK punk scene.

    Lots of continental European influence on Electronica, too, with people fiddling around with new tech. Of course, House, funk and Disco all gained popularity in American first, and have all cross-pollinated with other forms of rock. And you have dozens more genres and sub-genres there...
     
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  16. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Doctor of Teleocity

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    I think the Kinks were possibly the first Punk band...
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
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  17. notmyusualuserid

    notmyusualuserid Friend of Leo's

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    The Young brothers were born in Glasgow, they emigrated to Australia in the early 60s.

    Their current drummer, Chris Slade. is Welsh, and guitarist Steve Young (related to Angus and Malcolm) was also born in Glasgow.

    Bassist Cliff Williams is English.

    Then there's Axl Rose, an American...

    https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/axl-rose-joins-acdc-2016-852214/
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
  18. gridlock

    gridlock Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Agreed.
     
  19. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Doctor of Teleocity

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    I was interested to hear that my daughter had just finished playing at a folk concert this week here in the UK and an american came up all excited and told her it was great to hear US bluegrass and country!!

    It is all stolen... African and Celtic influences set the foundations in the new world.

    And Elvis.. He never wrote a single note or line of any of his 600 or so recordings.. just a well marketed act. Can we at least include people who actually write the music?
     
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  20. notmyusualuserid

    notmyusualuserid Friend of Leo's

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    A fact that is missed by the trolls/Brit haters :)
     
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