Americans Invented Rock and Roll, But The British Perfected It. Fight me!

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by ElJay370, Sep 26, 2019.

  1. ElJay370

    ElJay370 Tele-Holic

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    (Not looking for an actual fight, just a fun debate. And no, I'm not British.)

    Rock and Roll is a distillation of blues, jazz, and country music. All of which are American inventions. But I maintain that once this invention found it's way overseas, it was brought to fruition by the British.

    Look at the list of bands that came out of England in the 60s and 70s:

    The Beatles
    The Who
    The Rolling Stones
    Led Zeppelin
    Pink Floyd
    Black Sabbath

    This is basically the top of every "Greatest Rock Bands of All Time" list ever compiled.

    America has given the world tons of great rock music, but most all of them have pretty much patterned themselves in some way by the above mentioned bands. It wasn't until the 70s and 80s that Americans finally either rose to their level or took things into a different direction entirely.

    Jimi Hendrix and Eddie Van Halen...arguably two of the greatest electric guitar players who ever lived were both American, but Jimi had to go to England to break big, and was brought to America at the suggestion of Paul McCartney. Eddie regularly cites Eric Clapton as his biggest influence.

    Even from a gear standpoint the UK is dominant. Fender may have pioneered the concept of the high wattage electric guitar amplifier, but Marshall created the first large scale, purpose-built guitar amplification systems. Rock and Roll as we know it would never have existed without the Marshall stack. Orange and Hiwatt aren't far behind.

    So yeah....Game, set, match, Great Britain. :p
     
  2. Bones

    Bones Telefied Ad Free Member

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    OK.
     
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  3. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Nope.
    Those British bands only rehashed it.
    Or in the case of the Beatles made it pretty.
    Or Ozzy made it devilish.
    Or Floyd made it trippy.

    It was a Canadian group that "perfected it".

    The Band
     
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  4. Mick Sullivan

    Mick Sullivan TDPRI Member

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    A glorious dissolute symbiotic musical love affair.
     
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  5. mally

    mally Tele-Holic

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    America invented "Acid rock " which is good enough for me
     
  6. beyer160

    beyer160 Friend of Leo's

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    This is gonna be interesting.

    I tend to agree. It took Great Britain about a decade to get into the game, but once they did they came in strong.

    If you’re looking at all time great classic rock warhorses, the UK wins. However, that’s overlooking a vitally important segment of rock history.

    England never produced an equivalent of the Dead (not a fan, but you have to give them their due), the Velvet Underground, MC5 or Stooges... except maybe Hawkwind.
     
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  7. GoldieLocks

    GoldieLocks Tele-Afflicted

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    We all know that Rock n Roll started with GENE VINCENT: (YES, a fun debate. Hope nobody takes this too seriously. But some will)



    Did he pattern himself after the British? Maybe. But I don't think so.
     
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  8. fenderchamp

    fenderchamp Tele-Afflicted

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    I used to argue with my buddy Tracey about who was the greatest American rock band, and lament that the greatest rock bands ever were arguably British.

    But.. I dunno? I wasn't around or anything, but I think the folk rock/acid rock/psychedelic rock that ended influencing the early british/blues pop invasion stuff into hard rock and whatever it is you want to call Black Sabbath might be accredited in part at least to American bands too. Even if some of the crowning jewels might arguably be British bands certainly there were American bands that British Bands were listening too and vice-versa.

    All that motown/stax stuff certainly isn't pure rock and roll, but I think some of that stuff is every bit as great and can't be easily discounted, and it was obviously influential all through the 60s and 70s as well.

    All of this music is like a big organic whole in my mind, more than a few bands. everything comes from something else...


    And as far as the gear goes...I still can't name a really iconic guitar that's being made in England Vox? Burns? meh...
     
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  9. ElJay370

    ElJay370 Tele-Holic

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    I'll give you that one. For some reason, the Brits were never able to really get it together as far as luthiery goes...but big, loud amplifiers? No contest.
     
  10. Bob Mc

    Bob Mc Friend of Leo's

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    I too prefer rock and roll and blues rock interpreted by those off shore.

    I draw the line at funk and soul.
     
  11. bsman

    bsman Tele-Afflicted

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    Oh rly?

    [​IMG]
     
  12. tlsmack

    tlsmack Tele-Afflicted

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    Brits perfected the Rock part, but Chuck, Little Richard, and Jerry Lee still own the Roll!!!!
     
  13. 24 track

    24 track Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Oh you kids ....
    you cant argue with history and whats been done in the past , we all need to sit down share a pint and forget this nonsence,

    thank you Fender , Gibson , Marshall, and arbiter, Vox

    first round is on me

    24

    IBTL
     
  14. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Well note that years before Jim and Dudley tried to make an amp louder by using four instead of two 6L6 or el34 (in 1965), Fender had produced equivalent 100w Marshalls in the high power Tweed Twin seven tears prior.
    For some reason My Craven chose to use two output transformers with the four power tubes.
    Oh yeah it was because none of the British manufacturers made a big enough OT for the wattage!
    US transformers for a quad of 6L6 had been in use since the late '50s.

    While I love Marshalls the only thing they invented was cabs with four speakers.
    Nope, that's not true either.
    Fender put four tens in a cab for the Bassman way earlier.
    So the Brits invented eight speakers in one cab!
    Nope not really since after the Brits made it they couldn't lift it so they cut it in half!
    So they invented putting one cab on top of another cab.

    Yeah that's it, the Brits invented stacking.
    Stacking Murican designs...
     
  15. scelestus

    scelestus Tele-Meister

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    I see:

    Pop
    Power Pop
    Blues Rock/Pop
    Hard Rock
    Psychedelic Rock
    Early Heavy Metal

    Rock and Roll is a thing in and of itself, and peaked before these bands came along. If you want to talk about rock as a wider genre that isn't "Rock and Roll," then you also can't forget the Australians.
     
  16. DekeDog

    DekeDog Tele-Meister

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    Nothing is perfect... and what is perfect R'n'R? I would say that the British dominated R'n'R during the era of the invasion.

    I would also say that most early American music of significance (other than possibly "country")... jazz, blues, gospel, etc. ... was dominated by Blacks, most of them from the South. Whites dominated the music buying public, and the vanilla, British version of a predominantly Black music dominated popular music... from the Beatles to Herman's Hermits. I would submit that most of the listening public (White teenagers) in the '60s were unfamiliar with the roots of R'n'R. In fact, much of the British Rock was regurgitated American music made popular by White teens worldwide.

    I apologize if anyone is offended by my boiling this down to a Black/White thing, but it is what it is.

    Edit: I would also like to say that most of the sub-genres of Rock listed by scelestus had a great many American bands who shaped those sub-genres, not to mention that he left out Soul, R&B, and Funk.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  17. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Not a rock n' roll band on the list.
    There is a marked difference between rock n roll and "rock" music
     
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  18. Danjabellza

    Danjabellza Friend of Leo's

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    Canada does have some pretty good contenders.
     
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  19. RoscoeElegante

    RoscoeElegante Friend of Leo's

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    Well, uh, no.

    Sounds pretty damn perfect to me.


    And there are lots of forms of "perfect."




    ETC.
     
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  20. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    It doesn't matter. Enjoy what you want to enjoy. The concept of what is "perfect" or not is subjective.

    That said, I think rock-n-roll was pretty damned near perfect during its first decade, when it was primarily a U.S.A.n musical form. There is a lot of later rock-n-roll that I like, and even love, but it doesn't get much more perfect to me than Chuck Berry and Little Richard (just to name the two most [deservedly] famous examples).
     
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