'American' voiced speakers with 'British' amps?

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Samsen, Sep 20, 2013.

  1. Samsen

    Samsen Tele-Meister

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    Has anyone out there tried any 'american' voiced speakers (such as Jensen) with british amps like Vox/Marshall?

    I'm really curious about this because, I've got an Alnico Blue-type speaker (Tayden Ace25) in my 5E3 amp and it works really well, and plenty of info out there where people have swapped a 'british' voiced speaker in to american amps with good results. But you never hear of it the other way around?

    I imagine it's already been tried and found to be not very pleasant?!

    I hope to run my Vox AC15 in to a friend's Jensen P12Q tomorrow. Hopefully, it'll sound good! Specifically I want to try the C12R with my AC15. Is anybody out there who've done this?
     
  2. Phil_tre

    Phil_tre Tele-Holic

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    C12R in a AC15 ?
     

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  3. Samsen

    Samsen Tele-Meister

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    :twisted: Take a look at this: :twisted:

    http://www.jensentone.com/recommended_replacements

    Interestingly Jensen recommend the C12R and a P12R for an AC15!

    I do wonder how well some of the other speakers sound!

    I'd be interested in hearing experiences of folk who've tried american voiced speakers from other companies like Eminence, WGS etc. :)
     
  4. Samsen

    Samsen Tele-Meister

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    Just found this:



    Interesting. I can see how it could be very bright!
     
  5. Phil_tre

    Phil_tre Tele-Holic

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    That's what I said: very trebly, not enough bass, ice pick high...
    The C12R ri is probably the brightest speaker today, paired with
    a good mid scooped eq. It gonna be a harsh sounding combo in
    my opinion...

    Phil.
     
  6. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    I was curious too, about smaller brit amps and a C12N...the king of chime....?


    ..
     
  7. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    The classic American speakers / British amps combination:

    The Allmans used to run JBLs in Marshall cabinets with Marshall amps. Dickie still uses his old Marshalls with JBLs. He had Doug Hoffman go through them a few years back.

    There's a big Dumble style hole in the back of each cabinet. That lets those JBLs breathe.

    Dickie gets that classic Allmans sound with his red guitar and his old Marshalls. Go figure! That's his sound.

    Same guy, same amps an an oly white '65 Strat... he sounds like Robin Trower.

    An old Celestion Blue or Vox Bulldog is chime-y-er than a C12N.

    "Chime" has as much to do with amp voicing as it does speaker choice. If British equals chime then Marshalls should chime but they don't. If the amp is voiced bottom heavy the amp will roar before the top end breaks up.
     
  8. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    muchy....hmmm... I always thought blues had more dark then chime..it has been awhile....heard a real blue...

    Now if the Blue just had a higher wattage cousin. I have a gold, and it is diff.
     
  9. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    It's like any hot rod. It's all about power to weight.

    The Gold has a heavier voice coil than a Blue. It's a necessity. Heavier wire handles more power, lighter handles less. It takes more power to move more weight.

    I'm re-discovering 50+ y.o. speakers with lightweight cones and lightweight motor assemblies. There was a speaker "arms race" roughly coinciding with the global arms race, oddly enough. Everyone needed more power, more power handling and ever larger rigs coinciding with The British Invasion and the advent of stadium rock.

    I wouldn't give '50s alnicos a scond look or a second thought back in the '70s. Yank 'em out, replace 'em with JBL, Altec or EV...

    JBL and Altec have relatively large alnico magnets.

    Some of those old '50s speakers chime like the best British. Keep the power down, otherwise we can re-visit blown speakers just like the good old days. :lol:
     
  10. Televised

    Televised Friend of Leo's

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    Warehouseguitarspeakers sells their version of a 12" Jensen, (G12C/S?), which is supposed to be less bright than the standard Jensen to avoid the "ice pick". I have not heard it up close and personal though.
     
  11. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    "Ice pick" has as much to do with how the amp is voiced as it does speaker choice.

    Check this out: Audiophiles frequently stick a tube in an otherwise "pristine" signal path to add a little "warmth". "Warmth" and "chime" are closely related. Warmth in audiophile terms is a slight mid boost and just a touch of distortion on hard transients. Don't tell them they're deviating from their pristine "flat" frequency response. :lol: We're used to hearing music reproduced a certain way. That "certain way" traditionally includes a bit of compression and a touch of distortion on hard transients.

    I'm tellin' you that to tell you this: "Chime" includes quite a bit of distortion of upper frequencies which is perceived as harmonic complexity. Clean reproduction of high frequencies tends to sound shrill.

    There are several ways to go. If the amp doesn't chime get under the hood and make it chime.

    If the amp doesn't chime use speakers that start to roll off around 3.5khz. That gets rid of the "ice pick".

    If the amp chimes use speakers with extended high frequency response. Start to roll off around 5khz - 5.5khz. If the amp is nice and chime-y chopping the high frequency response of the speakers loses some of the chime. Boost the bottom end and lower mids instead of chopping the top end.
     
  12. leebman

    leebman Tele-Meister

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    Tayden and new Jensens all sound awful so if thats your baseline it will sound fine.
     
  13. schotter611

    schotter611 Tele-Holic

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    So true mucho man!
     
  14. greytop

    greytop Tele-Holic

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    I had a 2x12 open back cab with Alnico Jensens (very old, cannot remember the model), that I ran my Orange Tiny Terror into...was a very sweet crunchy sound...
     
  15. soulman969

    soulman969 Telefied Ad Free Member

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    You can log onto the Eminence website and get a basic description of the tonality of every speaker they make along with it's specs. Then there are sound bites of each playing in all different formats clean and overdriven.

    I think that will answer some of your questions better than anything.

    http://www.eminence.com/

    I replaced the stock Emi Legend speaker which has a British voicing in my Blues Cube with an American voiced Cannabis Rex and it's been great. Much smoother across the entire tonal spectrum and no more ice pick highs out of my single coils.
     
  16. Wayne Alexander

    Wayne Alexander Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Though I own and have played nearly every type of amp, my "home" amp flavors fall in the Vox and Marshall camp (Matchless and BadCat and 65Amps ones lately). I've have never liked the sound/response of any "British voiced" amp through "American-voiced" speakers like Utahs or CTSs or Jensens. On the other hand, I generally do like "American - voiced" amps through British voiced speakers - to my ears, Fender Tweed amps sound great with Celestion Blues or G12Ms or G12Hs, Fender Blond/Brown amps sound great with G12-65s or Vintage 30s, and some Blackface amps (Pro Reverb for instance) sound great with Celestions as well. This is my ears, yours may differ.
     
  17. slippin slider

    slippin slider Tele-Afflicted

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    :lol:
     
  18. schotter611

    schotter611 Tele-Holic

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    sorry to sidetrack...but I do get that 'British' voiced amps (wooly Marshall and Chimey Vox) have a stronger and more throaty mid presence with rolled off treble while American (scooped Fender) are heavier on the bass with sparklier treble. But does that necessarily mean that the respectively named speakers do exactly the same (exaggerating those tendencies) or would they rather 'deal' with them by compensating for those? In other words: Has a Brit voiced speaker necessarily a throaty mid range and an AM voiced one spiky treble?
     
  19. Axis29

    Axis29 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    I had an Orange TIny Terror and tried it with a couple of 'American Voiced' Speakers... A couple of Jensens, a Rajin Cajun, can't remember what else.

    I thought they sounded kinda out of phase (even when just by themselves)... Kinda boxy and extra quacky (not in a good way, in a weird kinda bright way).

    However, i love my Vintage 30 with my Princeton Reverb.
     
  20. jamesblancing

    jamesblancing TDPRI Member

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    I pulled out the stock Wharfdale speaker in my AC15cc1 and replaced it with an 1960 Jensen P12S. Sounds better now to my ears.
     
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