American football... no longer turning up field

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by TheGoodTexan, Dec 10, 2017.

  1. 1293

    1293 Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    7,386
    Joined:
    May 18, 2006

    I went to my son's Pop Warner banquet last night. I think one division didn't have enough kids to field a team. My son's team had 22 when everyone showed up. He was the starting WR and CB and also played FB. He only got to sit out a few plays per game.
     
  2. Jupiter

    Jupiter Telefied Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    24,652
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Location:
    Osaka, Japan
    This is drifting off topic a bit, but I wonder if anybody knows how rugby compares in terms of brain injury. I've only watched a few games, but it seems like it has a lot of the good stuff of football without some of the bad stuff. There's a lot of contact, but no pads, and I'm wondering if the lack of pads actually reduces these gnarly injuries people suffer because ironically the lack of pads leads them to be less reckless.
     
    jazzman1021 likes this.
  3. dburns

    dburns Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,025
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    Location:
    Darby, Pennsylvania
    I think everyone is making good and valid points, though I'm on board with The Good Texan. Not judging anybody as a wuss and realize how it is smarter to sometimes avoid the hit, but like he implied about himself, I also wasn't wired that way when I played. Didn't have it in me to run out of bounds and not lower my shoulder into a tackler. Of course I wasn't playing against elite level athletes moving anywhere near the speed of an NFL player. With my financial (and physical) livelyhood on the line it's very possible that a couple of big hits would've changed my tune.
     
    TheGoodTexan likes this.
  4. dburns

    dburns Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,025
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    Location:
    Darby, Pennsylvania
    Don't know, but I think you're into something about the lack of pads and recklessness. I will add this tho, and not taking anything away from the toughness of rugby players or their athleticism, but the NFL athlete is typically way bigger, stronger, and most of all faster. A typical LB can bench press 225lbs about 20-30 times...you know how strong you have to be to do that? Combine that with almost Olympic sprinter type of speed, it's just a ridiculous athlete we're talking about.

    Plus the NFL American football game is so specialized, whereas from my knowledge at least, rugby guys are out on the field for longer times, so as tough as they are and as great as their stamina is, maybe they're not always 'fresh' and therefore not running at their optimum speed. Now compare that to the the NFL where a special teams player (where serious injuries are very common) is only out on the field only a handful of times per game and is basically on a seek n destroy mission at full speed each and every time.

    So combine all that with your point of the equipment and recklessness and there's your answer as to why rugby may have fewer brain injuries. And I don't even know if it does, but just offering reasons why it would make sense for it to be true.
     
    1293 likes this.
  5. Colo Springs E

    Colo Springs E Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    15,137
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    To be honest, I haven't noticed it any more now than years before, but I'm willing to believe it's true. As an aside, one of the most famous truly old school RBs Franco Harris was noted by many as having a penchant for running out of bounds.

    There have been changes to the game that are less entertaining for the viewer, but sort of understandable from the NFL's point of view from a safety standpoint. Like it or not, players are bigger faster and stronger now-- the potential negative outcomes for hard hits nowadays is greater than it was in the past.

    The game is less enjoyable to me, but I am at this point still in. If it continues though, I think at some point, I'll become a casual / occasional viewer. I've stated before, I also hate the replay system--seems like every single catch is reviewed from 30 angles. I say go with what was called on the field and give coaches one, maybe two opportunities to challenge per half, that's it. All the pauses to review are really messing with the natural flow of the game.
     
    SolidSteak likes this.
  6. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    21,169
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    Around
    Sideline runs are always tough to see anyways.

    I think they should add hidden sensors that detect when someone steps out of bounds and add flashers and sound when he does.
     
    SolidSteak likes this.
  7. Jupiter

    Jupiter Telefied Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    24,652
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Location:
    Osaka, Japan
    And electric shocks!
     
    william tele and SolidSteak like this.
  8. RM8485

    RM8485 TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    33
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Location:
    Delaware
    I'm get the feeling I am a younger (and less ardent) viewer than the rest of you, and I believe it when you say the game is played with more of an eye to safety than it used to be. But the strategy of the game is also always changing, and I wonder if the increase in stepping out of bounds might also have something to do with a few extra seconds on the clock being seen as more valuable than a few extra inches.
     
    P Thought likes this.
  9. TheGoodTexan

    TheGoodTexan Moderator Staff Member Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    16,623
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2003
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    I've been hearing this my entire life, but I don't think it will ever happen in the US.

    (And I say this as a former collegiate soccer player.)
     
  10. tap4154

    tap4154 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    10,191
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Location:
    Southern California
    Looked to me like he was so focused on making the long catch, and with 1 minute left just wanted to stop the clock, so he let momentum take him out of bounds, setting up an easy FG attempt.

    I played HS FB but moved to another school after my sophomore year and decided not to at the new school. Got into surfing instead. Kinda glad now, seeing many of my peers that can barely walk because of knee injuries when they were 17-18.
     
  11. scrapyardblue

    scrapyardblue Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    3,592
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Location:
    central illinois
    Nutshell, in my opinion. If I'm the owner (or the head coach) of the Steelers, I don't want Antonio Brown to take a hit ever. I'll make an exception if we need the extra yard for a first down or touchdown. With the way these defensive players are launching themselves at opponents, I want Antonio healthy every game.

    While it may fly in the face of the very essence of the game, I'll take phenomenal Antonio over macho Antonio every day.
     
    dogmeat and SolidSteak like this.
  12. gtrjones

    gtrjones Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    924
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Austin, TX y'all
    I also think the cornerbacks, safetys, and linebackers are significantly bigger AND faster. I'd be getting out of their way, too.
     
  13. beninma

    beninma Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    42
    Posts:
    2,772
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    This... I don't know how it took 2 pages for that to come up. These guys are generally very smart and jump out of bounds based on the context within the game to stop the clock when needed.

    I don't watch much anymore, the whole sport is stupid and they know they need to tread really carefully cause they're on the ropes.

    There are places in the country where the parents are still pressuring the kids to play like crazy but lots of other parts of the country participation is dropping off a cliff cause none of us want our kids getting set up for CTE just for a 1 in 10 million chance of making it to the NFL. Not that even making it to the NFL is even a sure sign of anything good, so many of them just get near disabled by an injury and the average career is so short they don't really make enough money to really be set. I went to HS with several people who went to the NFL, my HS was a mega powerhouse football school. One of those guys is a household name QB who all the football fans will know. The other guys all had life changing injuries within a year or two of getting in the NFL and ended up out of the game with probably less than $1 million to show and damaged career prospects for anything else.

    Very glad my parents never let me play. Soccer was bad enough. (Played a ton of that) I'm not really sure I even want my son playing soccer... he's more into baseball anyway. I'm not really on board with any sport where repeated impacts to the head are routine. (Both soccer & football)

    Hilarious for a hundred years kids have been saying it hurts to head the ball and the coaches/parents said to suck it up and then it turns out it does cause CTE-like symptoms, just like football.

    A lot of the ignorant culture of coaching in youth/HS football sounds like it is not helping in terms of them still telling kids to hit with their heads & such.
     
    tap4154, P Thought and BigDaddyLH like this.
  14. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    42,507
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bakersfield
    Prittle, prattle, do you think this suit makes me look sexy? Why would I want to risk injuring myself? Love these earphones! What? I can't hear you.

    [​IMG]
     
    scrapyardblue and william tele like this.
  15. raito

    raito Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    5,762
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    So much to say here...

    Games change. I fenced in high school. Now, I can't watch modern fencing what with the fist pumping after every hit and trying to get the judges to overrule the electronics and other tomfoolery. I wrestled also, but they changed what I did from collegiate to folkstyle and changed the rules. Then there were the changes that came after the AAU was no longer the governing body in the US, and the rules for both freestyle and greco-roman changed (and then got scored identically). I also played goalkeeper in soccer, and that position is nearly unrecognizable from what it was.

    I dispute that football is a game of inches any more. Since the moneyball thing in basketball, every single aspect imaginable is analyzed quantitatively. I'd bet a considerable sum that there is no payoff in those extra couple feet in a particular play. Sure, it matter maybe a couple times a game. But I'd bet it doesn't most of the time. This makes it a different game, played by percentages and tendencies. Don't you think that by now every team has some quants working for them that can tell you in every situation just what the breakdown of the opposition's tendencies is? Sure you can.

    And I don't get upset when I see things like guys stopping pointless pursuit. They know when they can catch the other guy and when they can't.

    As for blows to the head, it's a major concern of mine. Fortunately, I know some people more professionally concerned. Less fortunately, I know one person whose life has caught up with him. Clinically, his MRI shows the damage, and his neurological and psychological signs are not good. He and his family have had to learn ASL, because he can barely string words (or thoughts) together. This is from being a boxer, a rugby player, and spending the last 25 years or so in a sport whose main scoring move is to hit the other guy in his (armoured) head with an inch and a quarter stick. He admits that he went cheap and light on the headgear.

    And many of the top guys in that sport exhibit nearly exactly the pathology of the guys whose brains show CTE. Even controlling for being at the top, and subject to the greatest amount of gossip, it's scary. No one ever says, "Geez, that guy was a jerk at 20 and he's an even bigger jerk at 40!" They seem to start out OK, but by the time they've spent decades getting smacked in the noggin, they're the sort who gets in people's faces and beat their wives.

    For myself, there's concerns, too. Played football, soccer, and fenced in high school (I don't think the wrestling had any effect). Did martial arts since I was 12, and worked out extensively with full-contact guys in my early 20's. Been getting hit in the head with a stick for the last 40 years, though less and less since I got good, and I never skimped on the helmet. Only 1 concussion, and it was mild and not sports related.

    Still, I can feel the effects. But is it that I'm just getting old? Is it because I had children later in life and they really suck away ones concentration? Or is it because my brain is swiss cheese? There's no record of dementia in my family at all. Ever. On the other hand, I've never been good with names, so I expected that facility would be the first to drop off.
     
    P Thought likes this.
  16. Ira7

    Ira7 Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    63
    Posts:
    10,122
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Location:
    Coral Springs, FL
    OT, what pisses me off about baseball these days:

    No one bunts to get the runner on first over to second to "manufacture" a run. Could be first inning, score 0-0, doesn't matter.

    But one run CAN matter in a game and you only see bunting the running over, if at all, in desperate situations.
     
  17. william tele

    william tele Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    19,176
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    That's it! My new image! Thanks TD!
     
    Toto'sDad likes this.
  18. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    42,507
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bakersfield
    I just KNEW that was YOU!
     
  19. Larry F

    Larry F Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    Posts:
    16,521
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Location:
    Iowa City, IA
  20. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    51,721
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Location:
    Kelowna, BC, Canuckistan
    I really thought the title was going to be metaphoric.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.