Interested in replicating this dyed amber top..they say. Looks like it could be..just have no experience doing one..mainly sanding back black, then color over that..is amber used the same way? 
Amber Dye?
- Thread starter torodurham
- Start date
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old_picker
Tele-Afflicted
few steps there.
couple of thin sealer coats
Dye everything dark like maybe a walnut
Sand it back until that ripple effects stands out - dye will sink into the pores which are deeper in some spots than others - the high spots will sand clean and the dye will stay in the deeper grain or pores
go at it with another couple sealer coats
spray your amber
then spray clear for maybe 10 to 15 coats, cure, saand and buff out
couple of thin sealer coats
Dye everything dark like maybe a walnut
Sand it back until that ripple effects stands out - dye will sink into the pores which are deeper in some spots than others - the high spots will sand clean and the dye will stay in the deeper grain or pores
go at it with another couple sealer coats
spray your amber
then spray clear for maybe 10 to 15 coats, cure, saand and buff out
Chunkocaster
Poster Extraordinaire
Looks like there is some orange or red in that top too.
If staining the wood which is risky, I would stain dark brown and sand most of it back off but leave it heavier around the outside edge, then red around the edges and sand off, then orange and sand off, then amber to taste. I would use the colortone wood stain stew mac sells diluted with water. Go easy if you are staining a thin veneer top as too much water might lift it and anything more than a light sand may sand through it.
You would really want to do a bunch of test runs on scrap flame maple first including the clear coats to get it right.
If staining the wood which is risky, I would stain dark brown and sand most of it back off but leave it heavier around the outside edge, then red around the edges and sand off, then orange and sand off, then amber to taste. I would use the colortone wood stain stew mac sells diluted with water. Go easy if you are staining a thin veneer top as too much water might lift it and anything more than a light sand may sand through it.
You would really want to do a bunch of test runs on scrap flame maple first including the clear coats to get it right.
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Vibrolux59
Tele-Meister
There are probably other ways of getting that sort of result. My approach is to use a tobacco brown alcohol based dye stain on the raw wood sanded to #320 or finer. let that dry then lightly block sand with #400/#600 to lighten the harder grain. You can sand more in the center as it appears they may have above to enhance your burst. That's where the stark contrast comes from. (you can do these process with oil based stains and get less contrast IME, or water-based stains I'm told)
Then apply your sealer and on to your translucent color coats (sparingly, it's really easy to accidentally get too much color and lose that contrast because it darkens as it cures) and on to your clear or lightly tinted finish coats.
Then apply your sealer and on to your translucent color coats (sparingly, it's really easy to accidentally get too much color and lose that contrast because it darkens as it cures) and on to your clear or lightly tinted finish coats.
I've shown this quite a few times, its not quite the color you want but I could adjust that
My wood has a bit more flame and not as much quilt as yours, but its similar in the chayotance.
My process was a very light amber/brown stain to "dirty" the edges wiped onto bare wood with NO SEALER. I then used a solution of Zpoxy in DNA to pop the grain, followed by nitro.
I have another piece of maple with lots of quilt that I will be doing a similar finish in maybe a month. I plan to document each step at that time. Here it is with some naphtha
The most important thing what ever you do is practice practice practice on scrap of the same wood. DO NOT EXPERIMENT ON YOUR GUITAR
My wood has a bit more flame and not as much quilt as yours, but its similar in the chayotance.
My process was a very light amber/brown stain to "dirty" the edges wiped onto bare wood with NO SEALER. I then used a solution of Zpoxy in DNA to pop the grain, followed by nitro.
I have another piece of maple with lots of quilt that I will be doing a similar finish in maybe a month. I plan to document each step at that time. Here it is with some naphtha
The most important thing what ever you do is practice practice practice on scrap of the same wood. DO NOT EXPERIMENT ON YOUR GUITAR
I would call that Tobacco and I love that look. It appears as a mini sunburst effect to me. Just slightly darker ring around the perimeter.
I used to have a similar Guild like this with even more burst effect.:
I appreciate your reply, however the 1st step in sealing with a few light coats seems counter to the dying process..wouldn't the sealer prevent the dye from penetrating?
That why I don't do it. But lots of people say they do. To confirm my suspicions I did a little test on some flamed maple with stains applied both to bare wood and to wood sealed with a couple of products. At the same time I was testing the difference between water and DA as solvents for my stain and also, whether I could use sealer to create a faux binding ala PRS. I'm not going to duplicate it here, if you are curious start with post #23 here
https://www.tdpri.com/threads/starting-a-partscaster-build-need-some-finishing-input.1000414/page-2
All this brings up a good point when someone gives you advice on how they would do something ask them to show you a picture of what they did. We all have a camera in our pocket, snap a pic of a guitar that they finished and post it. Intermediate shots are even better. If you like what they are showing you ask for specifics on products and application methods. If they can't give you a picture or specifics maybe you should be a bit skeptical.
If you like what they are showing you then try to duplicate it on your own scrap. You can modify it if you have other products or you want a different effect. I have never done exactly what I see in your picture but I have a pretty good idea how I would modify what I have used to get that color. But I sure as hell wouldn't just start shooting sealer or splashing dye on a guitar that I've just spent 500 on materials and a hundred hours building.
A couple more things to remember about the guitar in your picture. First, that is a stunning piece of quilted maple - I've paid a couple hundred dollars for just the top like that. But each piece of maple is different - some has lots of natural amber, some is almost pure white. Your wood may vary.
Second, the Warmoth paint guys are some of the best in the industry. They finish dozens of guitars each day. You may not have their chops.
Third, in an interview in American Lutherie, Ken Warmoth talked in general about their finishing department. He said they use some catalyzed polys (didn't specifically which ones) and had some compatibility issues with finishes He said it took a while to get that worked out. Point is, you may not be able to source the same products used on that guitar.
Good luck with your project - I'll look forward to seeing what you come up with (and how you do it).
eallen
Friend of Leo's
When it comes to figured wood you are doing a sand back for accenting figure, I always do the sand back color before sealing. Otherwise you will not get the color variations desired.
If I were asked to do this for someone I would start with a amber with maybe a slight bit of brown added to the dye on bare wood. I dye it quite dark. Then sand it back. Follow with spray on amber to the desired tint either before or after Sealer as prefered. Then do the slight outer shading of sprayed very dark amber. Do your tints diluted from your desire colors to sneak up on your desired intensity and darkness.
I might mist some yellow over it as well before the outer shading if I wasn't getting the brightness desired from pure amber.
If you are after faux binding like your example I always seal my edges before doing the top dye so the dye doesn't soak into the edge fibers.
Here are a couple using amber at some level. The curly was amber sanded back prior to yellow and then amber and brown edges. The strat is amber with a brown/amber edge shade.
Eric
If I were asked to do this for someone I would start with a amber with maybe a slight bit of brown added to the dye on bare wood. I dye it quite dark. Then sand it back. Follow with spray on amber to the desired tint either before or after Sealer as prefered. Then do the slight outer shading of sprayed very dark amber. Do your tints diluted from your desire colors to sneak up on your desired intensity and darkness.
I might mist some yellow over it as well before the outer shading if I wasn't getting the brightness desired from pure amber.
If you are after faux binding like your example I always seal my edges before doing the top dye so the dye doesn't soak into the edge fibers.
Here are a couple using amber at some level. The curly was amber sanded back prior to yellow and then amber and brown edges. The strat is amber with a brown/amber edge shade.
Eric
SOOO many great points there, spoken from experience no doubt.
Heres how it went.Sealed with vinyl sealer back and masked binding only.
Amber dye applied to bare wood twice and sanded back. (should have used a darker color)
Orange then yellow dyes.
Wasn't confident enough to try and do a burst dye..warmoth guys are pros..I'm not.
From this point everythg else is sprayed. Looks good...not great like target photo..but happy I was able to get to the point its at.
Did several samples prior to anythg being applied for base sand back.
(link removed)
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eallen
Friend of Leo's
Outstanding! Love the vibrancy of colors!
Eric
Eric
I agree, it looks great.
DrASATele
Poster Extraordinaire
Nicely done.
bender66
Poster Extraordinaire
I'd say you're pretty damn close from the images.
Nice work.
Nice work.
Thanks for sharing the thoughts and ideas, I should mention the body and neck wood and where it came from for this build.Its a walnut bed frame from VA that my great grandfather commissioned to be built, slept in and conceived my grandmother who then used it and conceived my dad and sibs, my dad then used it and conceived me and my sibs in it. I had it up in the attic and was cleaning a bit..frame was in worse condition than I thought when I pulled it down..at which point I conceived the idea of making two guitars 1 ea for my sibs for them to pass on..no one wanted the bed...so I went for it (preserving the 4 posts and headboard).
Neck pieces are gorgeous quarter sawn, straight and flat.
Pulled some square nails from a very old repair, dated them online from 1790 to 1840..hand made by a blacksmith no doubt ..bet that was a boring task..making nails...anyway thats the little history behind the builds.
tubejockey
Tele-Holic
I would be very careful with that guitar around your wife/GF, or your daughter. Sounds like it has a history of conception.
