Am I crazy? 3D printing a nut.

[chris m.]

A 3D printing shop recently opened up in my town. Assuming that the plastics they use would be a reasonably hard and resonant material, the concept of just printing a nut that has all the perfect dimensions is intriguing, especially since I don't have the (expensive) nut files or years of experience in making them myself. Conceptually, if you have a good set of calipers and reasonable drawing skills you could spec:

1) exact radius and height of the nut.
2) exact shape of each string slot-- matching the string gauge plus a hair of clearance, how steep of a slope back away towards the headstock, how much to open up the slot towards the headstock, etc.
3) exact string spacing

Seems like you would mainly be limited by how accurately you could measure the guitar you are trying to fit the nut to. But in theory if you measure everything correctly you could print out a nut that is exactly correct, resulting in the exactly correct slot spacing, slot shape, and string clearance above the first fret. No fine tuning needed.

What do you think? My suspicion is the biggest problem would be in measuring everything perfectly and rendering it into a schematic to feed into the 3D printer program. There are probably some precision measuring tools that would make it easier....but those are expensive, too. The upside is that in theory it would be easier for any person to learn how to do this rather than to learn the fine art of hand shaping a nut. Less precision surgical coordination needed-- just good measurement technique required.

 

[BigDaddyLH]

Do 3-D printer guitars also print out the nut?

image removed

Probably not...

 

[guitarbuilder]

If I had a 3d printer, I'd do a nut for the fun of it. I do exactly like you said but wouldn't try to get measurements to the atomic level.....close enough would be fine for me.

 

[jimdkc]

The most common plastics used for 3D printing are PLA and ABS. ABS is the harder of the 2. Lego bricks are made of ABS... so... I'd say, no, probably not hard enough for a nut!

 

[R. Stratenstein]

Yeah, generally, plastic nuts are cheap parts used on budget instruments. One of the more common upgrades is to replace with bone, or hard synthetic material. Also, with all the fiddly filing you have to do, it would be extremely difficult to come up with the exact specs you need to get a nut perfect. Dan Earlewine talks about adjusting a nut slot by .009 to get a "lower action". Can a printer be programmed to that kind of precision?

 

[Special Brew]

I don't think an FDM printer (like a makerbot) would really cut it but if you send it to shapeways or similar to get it made on an SLS printer in nylon it might be a goer. They still have a 0.1mm layer but the material is harder and does not delaminate so easily.

 

[guitarbuilder]

Yeah, generally, plastic nuts are cheap parts used on budget instruments. One of the more common upgrades is to replace with bone, or hard synthetic material. Also, with all the fiddly filing you have to do, it would be extremely difficult to come up with the exact specs you need to get a nut perfect. Dan Earlewine talks about adjusting a nut slot by .009 to get a "lower action". Can a printer be programmed to that kind of precision?

I think the printer resolution ( depending on the unit) can be pretty fine.


MakerBot Replicator 2 ($2,199)
More sophisticated FDM filament printers, like the $2,199 MakerBot Replicator 2 (another Best 3D Printer recommendation) or the open-source RepRap Mendel ($1,595 for a kit), add extra features to the standard 3D filament printer, such as multiple extruders and thinner layers (down to 0.0039 inches, or 0.1 millimeters) for smoother prints.

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/3d-printer-buyers-guide,news-17651.html

 

[jimdkc]

Also, while still pretty rare (and, I imagine, expensive!), it is possible to 3D print with metal.

 

[speedy25]

not hard enough for a nut!

+2. You could make a nice template for making a nut, but the strings would saw through anything you could make.

-SP

 

[guitarbuilder]

Gibson used Nylon saddles for a while. I don't think these things disintegrate overnite .

 

[TwangyWhammy]

The cheap domestic filament type 3D printers are like miniature glue guns. The nib squirts a tiny streak of hot molten plastic in adjacent parallel rows. The result is not a true solid item, but can be semi-porous like wood depending on the programmer. Add to that the plastic materials commonly being PLA or ABS, the result won't be as resonant as bone or harder types of plastic like ASA or Nylon. Even if resonance is not a factor, the strings will definitely dig-in the soft plastic material.

There are other commercial 3D printer types that can do solid resins and metals (even titanium), but they're still quite expensive.

I love the idea though. Say get your perfect NUT scanned to high engineering tolerances, and just get that 3D model printed every time you're doing a new guitar build.

 

[JimiRayKing]

"I love the idea though. Say get your perfect NUT scanned to high engineering tolerances, and just get that 3D model printed every time you're doing a new guitar build.

Um, isn't this what GraphTech does with the TUSQ nut? Each nut is unique and this exercise would still require a fair amount of shaping. An over-engineered solution to an issue that has an existing, simple answer.

 

[BartS]

Figure t h e open source linux community was getting in trouble for 3d printing guns and making the plans easily accessible I don't think a guitar nut would be a problem. Think you can buy a 3d printer for about the price of a guitar.

 

[perttime]

Find a friend who hunts. Get a deer leg bone. Adjust shape with hacksaw and files...

 

[Sourdough]

Decent idea but not worth it in the end.

The 3D printers that will be cheaper or same price as a nut, will not have the 'resolution' to have a nice smooth finish like a bone or plastic nut.
The 3D printers that do have the quality and resolution will be way more expensive than just buying a bone nut blank and sawing it by hand.

 

[octatonic]

It is something I am looking into as part of my studies- I'm staying guitar building at university.

You have several issues- firstly you need a high enough resolution, which isn't usually a feature of the consumer level units.
Also the material that you print is usually plastic, not something that is tonally superior to, say, bone.

Over time it will be more affordable, with the correct resolution and perhaps we will be able to affordably print in a material that is tonally equivalent to bone/corian/brass or whatever.
We aren't there yet though.

I'm planning on getting a 3d printer at some point after my studies, to mess around with compensated nuts and saddles- but waiting for the tech to improve before doing so.
It is moving very fast at the moment.

 

[Special Brew]

I'm planning on getting a 3d printer at some point after my studies, to mess around with compensated nuts and saddles- but waiting for the tech to improve before doing so.
It is moving very fast at the moment.

The home 3d printers have come on a lot in the last 5 years but I think they have reached a bit of a plateaux. I think the reason that there was a bit of an explosion in home CNC and 3d printing was the accessibility of information and advances / reduced cost in motors and motor drivers. Even ten years ago it was a lot harder to get up and running programming micro controllers and driving stepper motors. There is so much information available now that a child could do it. I think the home FDM printers are about as good as they are going to get, FDM is really old tech; I first 3d printed something 15 years ago and they existed long before that. To get an engineering quality material you really need to use a different process and 3d printing methods such as sintering are not coming to the home user any time soon IMHO. I think the setup cost and maintenance would be prohibitive. I don't think a commercial printers would cost you more than a quality tusq nut though. Try http://www.shapeways.com/create?li=nav and get some quotes. I think the nylon and metals would be the way to go, I think the acrylic would be too brittle.

 

[chris m.]

Remember when no one would dream of having a copier in their home-- you had to go to Kinko's. In the same way, for now if you want close tolerance 3D printing with high quality materials you will have to go to a "3D Kinko's" and pay a fee for each copy. In that scenario, as a critical mass of customers creates a critical mass of stores that provide the service it becomes an affordable and interesting alternative.

 

[Mister B]

I would have to agree with what others have said, we aren't quite there yet in terms of material nor resolution. Even current professional 3D printers wouldn't be able to match the "resolution" of a skilled luthier with a nut file. I think we'll get there in the not too distant future but my guess is that any nut would probably still need a tweak from skilled hands.

 

[crazydave911]

my guess is that any nut would probably still need a tweak from skilled hands.

Hear, hear!. To be frank, this entire conversation reminds me of the old excuses for not making your own neck................"I don't have the skills"..........."I can't afford/have the necessary tools/room". Bosh!
As many people learn every year during the build challenges, it ain't so! .I'll admit, nut making is my kryptonite too.............but I still do it, unless your a pro or very careless............you only buy those files once
But then again there's a reason places like Warmoth (no offense) charge and get a premium price for something you still have to put a finish on yourself