Almost bought a fake Les Paul from GC

[Skyhook]

You'd think employees at GC would be incessantly drilled in the art of spotting forgeries of famous models.
At least those authorized to take on consignment deals need to be.

 

[Bones]

I'm seriously considering buying a "fake" Les Paul- a Tokai ( Made i Japan) Love Rock.

Try to find an MIJ Epiphone with the open book headstock, great guitars, I have a couple. Long neck tenons, small pin bridge posts screwed right into the wood, nice top carves.

 

[Bones]

You'd think employees at GC would be incessantly drilled in the art of spotting forgeries of famous models.
At least those authorized to take on consignment deals need to be.

Or at least not allow nubs to buy used gear.

 

[northernguitar]

Good you were warned. Perfect example of why Chibsons and the people who buy them are a problem.

 

[Bourbon Burst]

I should have taken close up pics of it and maybe a real Les Paul for comparison for at least myself.

My brother-in-law checked out a 2014 Les Paul for me near where he lives. I googled a 2014 for comparison and that lead me to that fake at GC that is near me.

Here are pics of the guitar my brother-in-law checked out.If it looks like a fake, please let me know.

 

[loopfinding]

Pictures are too small to really see much. Someone had a good eye. A few years ago I was in a small local shop. They had a Les Paul Supreme in on consignment. I'd never seen one in person, but even from a distance something didn't look quite right. When I looked closer there were all sorts of things wrong with it, and mind you, I knew very little about Supremes. I pointed out some of the obvious signs that it was a fake to the store owner who promptly called the guy and told him to come and get it. He didn't want it in his store.

the supreme is like the fake rolex submariner of counterfeit guitars.

 

[Boreas]

That bridge placement is all wrong! Red flag right there!
See that tailpiece... it's supposed to be a tiny bit "ahead" of the volume pot like in the picture below.

Now look at the GC pic you provided. The tailpiece is way back.

Probably wrong scale length!

 

[Boreas]

I've never seen a Chibson with the correct serial number font. Not necessarily the format, but the font. It seems like it would be such a simple thing for them to get right, but they haven't seemed to figure it out yet.

Usually, GC's used listings don't give detailed or enough photos to make a proper assessment. This listing is not great, but better than many I've seen.

I can't get Chinese fonts right either.

 

[loopfinding]

Good you were warned. Perfect example of why Chibsons and the people who buy them are a problem.

it's funny that gibson had such a problem with well made japanese copies that were not counterfeits...they had no idea what the future had in store for them.

 

[Lonn]

The 0017 serial number is the easiest giveaway.

 

[loopfinding]

Probably wrong scale length!

probably no "scale" in that length at all, hahaha.

 

[northernguitar]

it's funny that gibson had such a problem with well made japanese copies that were not counterfeits...they had no idea what the future had in store for them.

There is no history of Japanese makers selling fakes. They all had Ibanez, Greco, Tokai, Burney, etc. on the headstock. People weren’t being fooled.

 

[teletimetx]

Probably wrong scale length!

Not only that, but the inlay work on the fretboard of the OP is hideous! Good gravy, you can see it in the thumbnail photos...

 

[Boreas]

There is no history of Japanese makers selling fakes. They all had Ibanez, Greco, Tokai, Burney, etc. People weren’t being fooled.

That is what @loopfinding is saying. Gibson went after those labels like they were war criminals, but the "real" fake market bloomed instead. Kinda ironic...

 

[Skyhook]

I should have taken close up pics of it and maybe a real Les Paul for comparison for at least myself.

My brother-in-law checked out a 2014 Les Paul for me near where he lives. I googled a 2014 for comparison and that lead me to that fake at GC that is near me.

Here are pics of the guitar my brother-in-law checked out.If it looks like a fake, please let me know.

Ooohh.... this is a tough one!
Meaning, don't take just my word for it!
I'm sure there are far more adept Lester-Inspectors lurking about here.

Having said that; here's my 2c about this thing:

PRO:
- The serial is in the large font that's usually used for LP serials.
- The serial looks to be shallowly stamped which is good. Many fakes have a very deeply carved serial.
- The headstock has visible glued on wings on each side. Very few fakes have this. They're usually cut from a single piece.
- The bridge posts are correct.
- The intonation screws are on the tail side, not the pickup side. This is good.
- The tailpiece seems to be in the proper location just "ahead" of the volume pot.
- The cables coming from the pickups are braided. Fakes usually have plain, cheap cabling.
- The insides of the electronics cavity is not painted black. Usually done to hide the cheaply spliced woods.

CON:
- Can't see if the Gibson logo G lines up perfectly with the fretboard. It should, at any rate. Check for yourself. (see pic below for reference)
- The truss rod cover location is just odd here. It's so high up. (see pic below for reference)
- The strange location of the truss rod cover has also pushed the Les Paul Model -text higher than usual. (see pic below for reference)
- The electronics are fastened directly onto the wood. Modern LP:s usually have a board on which the electronics are fastened. (other pic below)
- Modern LP:s usually have "Gibson" stamped on the pots themselves. These do not. (other pic below)
- The neck binding does not extend up onto the tips of the frets. Might be a re-fret job. Might be one of those rare years and models
where Gibson did not have the binding extend to the fret ends.

So.. in conclusion... beats me.
The rule of thumb is that since even Gibson sometimes produces anomalous models then you can't be
certain that a guitar is fake from just a few tells. It's more like the sum of everything and in this case.

I dunno...
I'm not familiar with the quirks(if any) of this particular year and model.
Sorry to be adding to the confusion.

 

[Bourbon Burst]

Ooohh.... this is a tough one!
Meaning, don't take just my word for it!
I'm sure there are far more adept Lester-Inspectors lurking about here.

Having said that; here's my 2c about this thing:

PRO:
- The serial is in the large font that's usually used for LP serials.
- The serial looks to be shallowly stamped which is good. Many fakes have a very deeply carved serial.
- The headstock has visible glued on wings on each side. Very few fakes have this. They're usually cut from a single piece.
- The bridge posts are correct.
- The intonation screws are on the tail side, not the pickup side. This is good.
- The tailpiece seems to be in the proper location just "ahead" of the volume pot.
- The cables coming from the pickups are braided. Fakes usually have plain, cheap cabling.
- The insides of the electronics cavity is not painted black. Usually done to hide the cheaply spliced woods.

CON:
- Can't see if the Gibson logo G lines up perfectly with the fretboard. It should, at any rate. Check for yourself. (see pic below for reference)
- The truss rod cover location is just odd here. It's so high up. (see pic below for reference)
- The strange location of the truss rod cover has also pushed the Les Paul Model -text higher than usual. (see pic below for reference)
- The electronics are fastened directly onto the wood. Modern LP:s usually have a board on which the electronics are fastened. (other pic below)
- Modern LP:s usually have "Gibson" stamped on the pots themselves. These do not. (other pic below)
- The neck binding does not extend up onto the tips of the frets. Might be a re-fret job. Might be one of those rare years and models
where Gibson did not have the binding extend to the fret ends.

So.. in conclusion... beats me.
The rule of thumb is that since even Gibson sometimes produces anomalous models then you can't be
certain that a guitar is fake from just a few tells. It's more like the sum of everything and in this case.

I dunno...
I'm not familiar with the quirks(if any) of this particular year and model.
Sorry to be adding to the confusion.

I should have added that the guy put in new electronics with cloth covered wire, bumblebee cap. Ad below...(click on to see what the seller describes)

 

[Skyhook]

I should have added that the guy put in new electronics with cloth covered wire, bumblebee cap. Ad below...(click on to see what the seller describes)

That would account for the "wrong" electronics, yes.
Also, from what I've managed to Google, the binding does not reach the fret ends on the 2014 Standard.
It does on the 2014 Traditional though. Thanks, Gibson!

That ad illustrates another point:
The case and the case candy.
Owners of a legit (higher end)LP should be able to produce the case candy that usually includes the blue warranty card
and a photo of the guitar in the factory as well as some other kindling depending on model.
If not, they should be able to produce a darn good story explaining what happened to said candy.
Re-sell value will suffer instantly as it's always suspicious if the case is gone.
Even if the guitar itself is 100% legit it might have been snatched at a show or the like if the case is nowhere to be found.

Sure, of course someone might use another case for the guitar, but at point of re-sale it feels iffy to be missing the original case.

... and speaking of which.
Google informed me that the 2014 case looks like this.

... which looks exactly like the case my 2016 Traditional came in.
Most likely the design doesn't vary much from year to year as the guitar shape doesn't either.

Which brings me back to... I see neither the case nor the case candy in that picture.

 

[24 track]

I should have taken close up pics of it and maybe a real Les Paul for comparison for at least myself.

My brother-in-law checked out a 2014 Les Paul for me near where he lives. I googled a 2014 for comparison and that lead me to that fake at GC that is near me.

Here are pics of the guitar my brother-in-law checked out.If it looks like a fake, please let me know.

1) first off the truss rod cover is correct,
2) the bridge is in the correct spot
3) inlay looks great and in the correct spot 12th fret and is scribed 20th aniversary
4) newer solid klusons , no extra holes showing these have been replaced
5) gibson pull back wire in the cavity soldered securely to the the top of pots also the switch wire is pull back as well
6) no conductive paint in the cavity

these boxes all check properly to being a real guitar

this model possibly has a chip under the fret board for verification

 

[northernguitar]

That is what @loopfinding is saying. Gibson went after those labels like they were war criminals, but the "real" fake market bloomed instead. Kinda ironic...

Got it and I agree.

China counterfeits EVERYTHING. I don’t think any industry knew what they were getting into.

 

[northernguitar]

1) first off the truss rod cover is correct,
2) the bridge is in the correct spot
3) inlay looks great and in the correct spot 12th fret and is scribed 20th aniversary
4) newer solid klusons , no extra holes showing these have been replaced
5) gibson pull back wire in the cavity soldered securely to the the top of pots also the switch wire is pull back as well
6) no conductive paint in the cavity

these boxes all check properly to being a real guitar

this model possibly has a chip under the fret board for verification

Great points on this second LP. However, what friggin nonsense to have to deal with.