Alcoholism

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Phrygian77, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. Bergy

    Bergy Tele-Meister

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    All I know is that those withdrawals sound familiar to me. Best of luck to ya, Phyrgian77. Absolutely no judgement here.
     
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  2. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Yeah I found many seemed to be competing for being the worst drunk in the room, I spilled more than you drank etc.
    Or among addicts it was jail time and crime and dollars spent per day etc.
    I eventually found meetings more focused on the solution than the problem.
    Those who go to meetings and only talk about the drunkard life?
    We all know about that stuff, why tell those stories?
    It's what newcomers do, though for many experienced members it stays a part of their story.
    There are meetings where the discussion is not about what we don't do any more.
    In the meeting lists there will be step meetings, maybe visit some of them and see if you hear more useful stuff.
    A step 1-2-3 meeting will be more new members and less mature dealing with life on lifes terms talk.
    Regular step meetings should focus on the process of change, so not really need to list losses as much.

    I recall Northern Maine meetings it seems like every durn member lost their job, wife, house, pickup truck, and finally their dog.
    Then they joined AA and got a new dog, job, pickup, house, and wife.
    Wanted to run screaming out of those meetings!

    You might also try an AA hotline and request a call back if that's how they do it in your area.
    Explain to the member that you don't get anything out of meetings where members mostly talk about what you listed, and ask what meetings might better suit you.

    It's worth noting that there are plenty of what's called "high bottom" alcoholics and addicts.
    These are folks who stayed functional but couldn't quit no matter how they tried.
    Identifying in meetings where most are low bottom and bragging about it is a challenge if you didn't live like that.
    There are meetings with your kind talking about stuff you can relate to.

    I remember very early I went to a meeting sort of like that but for addicts, and i had a really hard time relating because none of them seemed to have had it as bad as me. I kept going though because I was told they had good recovery, and I was desperate to not go back to the old ways.

    A meeting with a large proportion of reasonably healthy well adjusted recovering alcoholics will have things you want and can relate to.
    Gotta find them though, if you feel like your prior attempts just haven't been enough.

    A rehab might make the difference, but there are no miracle cures.
    It's possible a rehab will be similarly uninspiring since those who are bad enough for insurance to put them in an institution are likely to have lost jobs and family and gained police records.

    Good luck with your next steps and keep us informed!

    In case reading comments by members here in recovery might help or inspire, here's that old thread:

    https://www.tdpri.com/threads/is-anybody-else-in-recovery-or-clean-and-sober.263559/page-57
     
  3. Phrygian77

    Phrygian77 Tele-Afflicted

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    And at 2am, I need cigarettes, because while alcohol withdraw my kill you, nicotine withdraw will make you want to kill... lol
     
  4. Phrygian77

    Phrygian77 Tele-Afflicted

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    You read some of the reviews on the place and it's, "this is no place for a married man." Well, that doesn't worry me, because I know me well enough I will let it alone, but it sure as hell worries my fiancee. I've got to try something else though because the pills aren't working anymore, and I don't want to lose my job, that would just about be game over. With this, I'm covered by FMLA thank God.
     
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  5. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    It's actually funny thinking back regarding your not relating to the lower bottom drunks.

    There was that one meeting where I couldn't relate because the members were long term in recovery and talked about family and career stuff rather than drugs and crime. They were not like me.

    But there were other meetings where I couldn't relate because everyone had been in prison, most seemed to have hep C or HIV, they all seemed to mention their $1000 a day habit, and I felt I didn't fit there either.
    Because they were not like me.

    As it turns out, one of the core symptoms of alcoholism and addiction is the feeling that nobody is like me, nobody understands me, I can't relate to people that are different from me etc.
    With time we can recognize that there is a core where we are more the same than different, those of us who can't stop blotting out our brains with chemicals. Just gotta find the commonality.
    We have a phrase: "Identify, don't compare".

    Through the 12 step process I discovered that I didn't really know me very well, and much of what I felt I knew was assumptions rather than facts. The steps allowed me to lay out my beliefs and behaviors, see how they fit together and worked or didn't work, then amend those that just weren't beneficial.

    All this is totally unrelated to jobs and jails.

    Meetings are not the same as program, they are just the place we go to shop for the program.
     
  6. Toast

    Toast Tele-Holic

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    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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  7. Phrygian77

    Phrygian77 Tele-Afflicted

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    I'm pretty sure now that I'm addicted to Ativan also, because I would take them late at night when I was drinking, just trying to preempt withdraw. In that case, 1+1=5, not good.
     
  8. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Hahahaha Oh lord a fiancee having a say in your "recovery"!
    Sorry, some rough memories there...
    There is another program for loved ones to learn not to try to control and FIX their drunkard loved one.
    Alanon.
    Don't tell anyone but I went for a while because my wife struggles to control her drinking.
    She also never lost her job or got arrested.
    She drinks harder than I ever drank or drugged though.
    Not every night so she doesn't have a problem!
    'Cept she tries to quit and then has to drink again.
    And it really hurts our marriage.
    She joined a 12 step program two different times but never got past six months.

    I'm not sure what the "no place for a married man" thing is all about, haven't heard that one?
     
  9. Phrygian77

    Phrygian77 Tele-Afflicted

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  10. Phrygian77

    Phrygian77 Tele-Afflicted

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    Hey, Tele, I've never met anyone like her. Maybe it's her British genes. She can walk away from anything addictive. She smokes when she drinks, but she doesn't smoke everyday. She drinks socially, but she doesn't drink everyday like I do. And, I'm dead serious about it. She ain't a young girl either, so this has been the norm for a while. She was born in 1959.
     
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  11. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Mmmm, rehab should be able to get you off that stuff.
    There is a bottle in my house but I'm not the one taking it, very common substance and known to be problematic in long term use (AFAIK). That gets more medical and less addiction recovery, I'm not a doctor!

    There's always NA as well as AA.
    It may have a rougher exterior but it's also a newer program created after the predecessors discovered some bugs.
    In NA, alcohol is a drug, so you're fully qualified for membership on the booze alone.
    An interesting difference is that in AA you are powerless over something outside yourself: alcohol; but in NA you are powerless over something inside yourself: addiction.

    The steps are approached differently because of this and because basically an older program was redesigned for newer times and more varied membership.
    As we sometimes say, we have all kinds, from jail to Yale.
     
  12. Misty Mountain

    Misty Mountain Tele-Meister

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    Totally understand. Get yourself into treatment - check out Dawn Farm in Michigan. It really has worked for me. 38 years of sobriety this Friday.

    Sorry I was a bit flippant in my first post.
     
  13. HotRodSteve

    HotRodSteve Friend of Leo's

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    When you're ready to quit mainlining ethanol you will.
     
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  14. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    A good woman to love can be an inspiration!


    And now it's way past my bedtime...
     
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  15. Toast

    Toast Tele-Holic

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    I'm sure you're right. Interpret withdrawals in the best way to lead you to heal. All the best.
     
  16. dlew919

    dlew919 Poster Extraordinaire

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    As a teetotaller you get no judgement from me. I can’t give any advice. All I can say is good luck and best wishes. And listen to those who know and have been there and come out I guess.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. raysachs

    raysachs Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    That’s me too, And I wish you nothing but the best.

    I’ve never been a drinker (well, a few years in my youth, but never a regular drinker, and now barely at all). I don’t know what you’re going through, but I’ve seen more than enough to know it’s devastation. My wife comes from a family where almost all the men on her mother’s side are or were heavy drinkers. She and her sister (and their Mom) married guys who aren’t, but her brothers, uncles, cousins, maternal grandfather, etc, etc, etc, are. I can only think of one male cousin on that side of the family who’s not.

    I’ve seen some of them start as young men who liked to drink, grow into middle aged men who had to drink, and are now older guys who don’t work, don’t have any meaningful relationships, they just live for the bottle and, in some cases, the crack pipe. Others have died of it or with it, and one is growing old finally having gotten clean in his 60’s but his health is awful from all the years of drinking (and the smoking that went along with it) and he’s dying in his early 70’s. We essentially raised a nephew because my wife’s brother (and the mother) couldn’t. I’m kind of glad we didn’t have boys because my MIL has never had a problem but she sure carried the gene and I fear my wife may have as well.

    Fortunately, our daughters seem to have escaped it, as have all of the women, somehow. But I’ve seen so many lives destroyed, up close and very personal, and it’s killed me to see it happn to guys I really liked before they got too deep, and now I can’t stand to be around. Some of them were very productive, but now aren’t. It breaks my wife’s heart every day because these are the boys she grew up with and now she’s barely in touch with as men.

    So do whatever you can do, do it as soon as you can. I don’t claim to know how hard it is, but I’ve seen how impossible it’s been for too many and it’s the saddest thing I’ve ever seen. You say you’re not like some of the guys you’ve met in meetings, but I guarantee neither were they, until they were. I’m not trying to scare you, but in a sense I am. You sound like you’re already scared yourself. You can get free of it but only you can make yourself do it. I’m the least qualified guy to ever try to tell you anything, but I had to relate my experience as someone who’s seen it all and had to deal with too much of the fallout.

    I wish you strength and resolve...

    Edit: One thing I forgot to mention above, it's so freaking obviously a disease, nothing to beat yourself up about. It's not a character issue, it's a sickness. If it was primarily environment, both sides of my wife's family would have been equally messed up with it - they all came from the same place, all knew each other for decades. But the men on one side were almost all affected and none of the men on the other side were. Some of them were and are drinkers, but not heavy, not nearly every day - they're not addicted. All but one of the guys on the maternal side of the family are addicted. That's not a character issue, it's so clearly a genetic pre-disposition. Like many diseases, if you don't get treatment for it, it can wreck or end your life. And if you do, in most cases you can live long and well even knowing it's living in the background. I have a a few conditions that I'm living with and managing that could bring me down if I didn't stay on top of them. I just don't have this particular one. Get treated for it...

    -Ray
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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  18. LKB3rd

    LKB3rd Friend of Leo's

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    You can do it.
    I quit drinking over ten years ago (I forget exactly how long) and it has been a huge positive improvement in my life.
    I wish you the best and again, you can do it. It might not be easy and it might take time, but you can do it if you want to.
    Don't downplay the Ativan, or harbor thoughts that maybe you can just take that instead of drinking. That's the same sort of thinking that leads to troubles, and many of us have been there and successfully quit.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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  19. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    Good luck.

    I've made this observation via doing a lot of volunteer work and outdoor sports plus going to a particular acoustic music jam. At times new and regular faces in these circles have been dealing with this or other issues. It seems to me they are getting in a circle with good characteristics for the issues such as decent caring people, a social aspect, some routine, and a few have said it is better to be obsessive with something healthy than not.

    It no doubt seems like you need professional help but I figure I'd point this out because some in these circles have been explicit. They've said the civic volunteering and getting into a healthy sport was every bit as much part of therapy or treatment.

    Again, good luck.
     
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  20. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Ad Free Member

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    When you realize it is a disease you can be easier on yourself.
    I have a predispostion from genes, I am always on the lookout.
    Wish you luck.
     
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