Alcoholism

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Phrygian77, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. LKB3rd

    LKB3rd Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,690
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Location:
    CT
    Don't worry about labels. It doesn't matter what you call it or don't call it. You sound like you are using alcohol in an unhealthy way, and if it isn't doing it yet, it likely will start to cause problems in your life. They can and will be bigger than your problems you are trying to drown out if you do it long enough.
    There are other things than alcohol that you can use in the same way. Exercise is great because of the endorphins, but it isn't the only thing. And I don't mean other drugs! :p
    Start thinking about these things, and when you decide you are headed toward a place you don't want to be (and it sounds to me like you are) you can stop. You don't need it, although I certainly understand loving being drunk, I used to love it too, and I guess I still would if I did it, but maybe not.
    Don't waste years drunk that you can't get back is what I'd say, but only you can decide and only you can make changes in your life for the better.
    Good luck!
     
    Fiesta Red, JL_LI and E5RSY like this.
  2. Manual Slim

    Manual Slim Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,567
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Location:
    Up around the bend
    I exercise regularly. “Runners’ high” does exist, but it’s not the same as having a few drinks.
     
    Fiesta Red and telemnemonics like this.
  3. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    19,627
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Location:
    Detroit

    Alcohol beyond a drink or two is supposed to be an enhancer to some thing, not the thing itself ...


    Everyday drinking to excess is a marker .

    For only two things.

    And you can have both.

    1. A marker for someone sick/who needs help.

    2. A marker for a boring person .

    3. Every so often it can be a marker for a brilliant, creative, wildly interesting genius but those folks will also invariably have #1 as well...
     
    telemnemonics likes this.
  4. blues

    blues Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    490
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Location:
    Pa









    Odat brother
     
    Fiesta Red and uriah1 like this.
  5. tlp123

    tlp123 Tele-Meister

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    111
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    And sadly there are those like you that "DON'T GET IT".

    It's a choice. No one pours the poison down their throat but them.

    To those "who die shortly thereafter" it just wasn't important enough to them.

    Those that get sober and stay that way FIND A WAY TO DO SO. PERIOD.

    Don't over think it, and don't over complicate and obfuscate natural law and the facts of life with some long rambling nonsense.

    Although I'm certain you will.
     
  6. tlp123

    tlp123 Tele-Meister

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    111
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    Good god man.....but whatever works for you.

    I can think for myself.

    It is a choice.

    I make a choices everyday.
     
  7. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    60
    Posts:
    17,311
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    You sound angry, as if from personal experience, and you separate yourself from "them".
    Anger is understandable, I feel it too at times WRT those who can't seem to break free of alcoholism/ addiction.

    As far as nobody pours the "poison" down their throat, I presume you were not one who was given a spoonful of whiskey at bedtime so your parents didn't have to listen to you cry?
    And if you call it poison, are you against all alcohol use?

    As far as your concern that I "over complicate and obfuscate", it seems that outsider who debate whether of not the alcoholic and the addict should get help with their problem, over complicate the solution with never ending often angry judgemental debate.
    Raving in judgement of clearly sick people you do not understand and are made angry by, is over complication and obfuscation.

    Take the drunk sitting in the ruins of his life, and you suggest he just FIND A WAY to live sober.
    Sounds simple enough.

    Until strangers, friends and family tell him alternately "you don't need those meetings", "it's your fault your wife left and took the kids", "with your drunk driving record and bad references we can't hire you", "your liver is shot you're going to have to change your diet", "you should be ashamed of yourself", "aww c'mon have a drink", "you hafta vacate the premises by tomorrow or the sheriff's deputy's will arrest you", "I'm sorry you don't qualify for a car loan because of your past credit problems", "you seem to be suffering from depression, here's a prescription, call us if you have any questions", "hey buddy was that you I saw with my wife last week?", "here take one of these I got from the neighbors medicine cabinet, you'll feel better", "don't go to AA it's a religious cult", "I heard your wife left honey, wanna meet me at Paddy's later tonight?", "you used to be a good employee, what the hell is wrong with you?", etc etc, as is what the hopeless drunk hears when they find drinking is the problem and all their friends are sick of them.

    Should he go to AA he will be told: "Don't drink, go to meetings, ask for help".
    No over complication there.

    How is that a problem for you?
    Drunks going to AA?

    If you had more actual experience with longer term clean & sober AA or NA members you would know just how much it IS important to them.
    You would also see them volunteering in their community, reaching out a helping hand to those less fortunate, forgiving those who mistreat them, listening to those who need an understanding ear, and giving back to communities in which they behaved in regrettable ways. But they will generally not tell you about that stuff, because anonymity demands such.

    Your above claim that "it just wasn't important enough to them" must be based in some experience with those who failed to get sober.
    Again, anger and frustration is understandable, and I experience it pretty often as an insider watching some succeed in 12 step recovery while others go on and die or suffer for years longer than needed.

    Invariably those who don't manage to get clean or sober in a 12 step program, didn't follow the simple steps, and instead tried the wide range of outsiders insistence that they find their own solutions, AKA man up you lazy irresponsible piece of crap.
    Those are the suggestions given by the individuals who have grown sick and tired of hearing the excuses.
    Whether inside a recovery program or out in the larger community, we all get tired of the excuses.

    It's unfortunate that so many in the larger community discourage those with drug or alcohol problems from seeking and taking help in 12 step programs.
    The discouragement from the ignorant helps those who have made excuses for their drinking and drugging to turn around and make excuses for why 12 step programs don't work for them.
    Excuses like "those people are not the same as me", "I'm not spending my evenings with sober drunks", "no way I'm going anywhere they mention God", and the best one: "I went to some meetings and it didn't help, so I stopped and went back to drinking".

    We see those in the larger community who tell hopeless drunks and druggies not to go to meetings pretty often.
    That common righteous sermon old and tiresome.
    It does not help anyone.
    Why do it?
     
  8. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    60
    Posts:
    17,311
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    So by think for yourself as opposed to get with a program, what does that look like?

    Did you not join the education system, the job system, the money system, the tax system, the laws system, the banking system, the Social Security system, the save for retirement system, the register your car and take a driving test system, the carry identification and banking ID system, the moral and legal clothing requirements system, the no punching people if you don't want them to punch back system, the seek a doctor's care when sick system, the seek legal counsel when facing a legal issue system, the go to the barber when you need an acceptable haircut system etc etc?

    The only people I know of who do not join all those systems are preppers with bunkers full of guns and canned food.
    I can't say their chosen way looks very good, but again, I'm an outsider and have never been one of those people who refuse to follow any system's tyranny.
     
    drlucky likes this.
  9. tlp123

    tlp123 Tele-Meister

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    111
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    Angry no...annoyed yes.

    I'm not reading thru all that crap you posted. I don't need to aimlessly bloviate thru a slobbering wall of text to make my point............

    This is not rocket science.

    It's really pretty simple.

    1) How much pain can you stand?

    2) What's more important to you, life or death? And if you knew your vice of choice was going to kill
    you, which would you choose?

    If you choose life, and you find something that keeps you on the path of life without the vice that was going to kill you, then you have achieved that successful path for as long as you CHOOSE to stay on it.

    How you got there, or what method(s) used isn't as important as the CHOICE(s) you made to get there.

    BUT IT WAS A CHOICE!!

    GET IT?!?!?
     
    daveinohio likes this.
  10. tlp123

    tlp123 Tele-Meister

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    111
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    You miss my point.

    .......Or, you're stupid.

    .......Or, you just want to debate......for the sake of debate.

    Which is it?
     
  11. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    60
    Posts:
    17,311
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    I apologize for falling into argument, it is futile and not in the spirit of this thread.

    A friend among us is in a bit of trouble and came here asking for some help, advice, encouragement, personal experience getting through his sort of situation etc.

    Beyond my answering questions about what one can do to get better when one is in the situation our friend @Phrygian77 came here to ask about, I have no business arguing with those who presume me confused or stupid.
    In the sense that it is correct to suggest it's stupid for me to fall into argument, yeah I was stupid.
    After years of working with medical and law enforcement professionals I've got some investment in how this an work for those who choose to work it.
    The whole thing is tragic and I let my feelings get the better of me.
    After decades of no longer having a problem with drugs & alcohol, I go to meetings to offer the same help that was freely given to me when I first showed up in a similar state to that the OP is in right now.


    What I've been wondering about and hoping to see pop up again is how our friend here is doing in the recent intensive outpatient program he started?

    We know that his life as well as his fiance and a teen girl they take care of are in a rough spot, and we hope they can get through and out of it into healthy happy living.

    I hope you're doing better @Phrygian77 !

    Again, I apologize for arguing.
     
  12. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    60
    Posts:
    17,311
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    You got two out of three right!

    I was stupid to argue and I value debate on the subject, as it allows those who might need help to get an idea of how it works.
    Debate also helps those in 12 step service work to understand how the community views 12 step programs and members. There are PR committees trying to bring a clear understanding of 12 step recovery to outsiders, and it is a challenging job.

    I do get your point and make that exact point to some who ask for help: "You must do the work! Sitting around listening to others talk about doing the work will not change anything!!!".
     
    Greggorios likes this.
  13. teletail

    teletail TDPRI Member

    Age:
    69
    Posts:
    55
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2019
    Location:
    West By God Virginia
    +1

    No one WANTS to be an addict. Not everyone has what it takes to break the addiction. I'm not excusing anyone, just stating a fact.
     
  14. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    19,627
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Location:
    Detroit
    It works if you work it.
     
    telemnemonics and Greggorios like this.
  15. tlp123

    tlp123 Tele-Meister

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    111
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    But, for those that have been successful breaking an addiction, it all started with a CHOICE to do so, and a CHOICE to find a way a way to do so. Nobody is the same, and not everything works for everyone.

    AS LONG AS ONE IS STILL ALIVE, ONE STILL HAS A CHOICE.

    Just stating a fact.

    Absolutely! Whatever that happens to be.
     
  16. TheGoodTexan

    TheGoodTexan Moderator Staff Member Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    16,314
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2003
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Moderator note:

    This is a very serious thread, and we're allowing it to remain for now. But if name calling begin to become a part of the thread, it will be locked. Please follow the stated rules about treating everyone with respect, even those who may disagree with you.
     
    Modman68, Fiesta Red, drlucky and 4 others like this.
  17. L.A. Mike

    L.A. Mike Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,085
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2014
    Location:
    somewhere over a rainbow
    Lots of intolerance and even outright hate demonstrated in threads like this. Against the alcoholic and/or alcohol itself.
    I don't know any alcoholics or former addicts who liked where there were when they used. They wanted to stop but the cravings and clouded thinking got in the way.
    Once alcoholics get sober and stay that way for a while they can return to thinking and behaving rationally. And become productive again.
    But the scarlet letter will always be there. Friends and family members will remember what the person was like when they used. And will remember the grief, pain and expenses they caused others. An addict/alcoholic will never get 100% trust back from others. There will always be the people "waiting for the other shoe to drop". What I mean is, I heard many times in AA meetings about people who'd been sober for very long periods of time. Decades even. Yet, if something went wrong, like they got in a car wreak, the first thing out of the mouths of the family is usually "Did he/she drink again? Was that what caused it?"
    That was a hard thing for me to hear after I got sober. That no matter how long I stayed sober, people would never trust me 100% again.
    Sobering thought indeed. I'd lost that trust forever. My fault no doubt.
    But today is a great day and I'm very thankful for it. Each day is like a gift to me now. I didn't feel that way when I was younger. I just took life for granted.
     
    stevemc, drlucky, JL_LI and 3 others like this.
  18. MonkeyJefferson

    MonkeyJefferson Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    623
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Location:
    Nonurbana
    Right down to the very last detail- your story is mine- WWII Grandpa, died young, always wasted. Virtuous, straight and narrow Pops. Loose as a goose over here on my end throughout my life, mentally. The legacy of alcoholics can resonate through a family for 100's of years. I hope you can stop, brother. Tough *******ed row to hoe, make sure you're playing and writing down thoughts and pained feelings (future verses) as you go. Maybe you won't succeed, but try. And pick either way.
     
    stevemc and Harry Styron like this.
  19. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    19,627
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Location:
    Detroit

    I’m not an alcoholic but I used to be one of those sneerers who said “it’s a beverage/it’s a choice . If you were lactose intolerant and you chose to drink milk I’d laugh at you too ! Just stop drinking whichever beverage you have a problem with !”

    I also thought AA was a crock and a crutch and a place people could blame everybody but themselves for their dilemmas.

    I posted those views on this very forum ! :confused:

    Listening to a comic’s podcast for the last 6 years changed all that. He’s been sober for 20 years and talks about people writing to him and the support that goes one direction and then it comes back to him and the one day at a time thing - and it all clicked.

    Plus, it’s naive to think that if every third one of us is suffering from faulty knees or backs, that the supercomputer we carry around in our skulls is going to function perfectly at a higher percentage than more simple bodily machines (i.e., there’s a lot of damaged people out there)
     
  20. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,966
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2015
    Location:
    Nashville
    My Dad was the Alcoholic other heavy drinkers would be amazed by. I had seen him a few times in what I describe from the outside as hallucinatory states like he was on some type of acid trip as if he was the only one in the house. Crazy stuff. The strange part is he seemed to not have issues not drinking when was in the hospital during his cancer days.

    Stories like this scare me, I love drinking and go through periods where I might drink for a good number of consecutive evenings. But, I've never drank after having a bad time the night before, that mean drunk stuff yet I'm more than capable of just drinking like the whiskey is water. Luckily, no withdrawal symptoms when not drinking, that sounds horrific.

    That said, my history with booze is the opposite, when single it was purely a weekend/social thing and same in most of my relationships. With the misses in my life? Ooof, some nights by about 9pm I'm escaping it all :mad:

    Be tough, real tough. Not taking the bite of something that your entire frame of mind & physical symptoms are telling you to bite into takes a real hard head no matter what the counseling/support/etc.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.