alcohol withdrawal.

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by johnny k, Jul 25, 2021.

  1. Deeve

    Deeve Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    I'm learning something every day (another benefit of dropping contempt prior to investigation... along w/ alcohol) ;)
    there's a new term, apparently: "California Sober"
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/demi-lovato-lala-kent-california-sober_n_60fad348e4b0d2a22d4abede :eek:
    Instead of practicing total abstinence like in traditional recovery, being “California sober” usually means a recovering addict uses certain drugs, like weed and alcohol, in moderation. The “complete abstinent method isn’t a one-size-fits-all solution for everybody,” Demi said during an interview with “CBS Sunday Morning” that aired in March. :oops:

    Po-tay-toe
    Po-tah-toe :lol:

    If you want to get intoxicated (pick your chemical) it's Your Business
    If you want to live clean, one day at a time, I'll be happy to chat via private message. There's more than one way home.

    Peace - Deeve
     
  2. TwoBear

    TwoBear Tele-Afflicted

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    Yeah none of this stuff is a joke and things like Xanax are so much more powerful and addicting than many think. It’s not unheard of that some people can’t sleep normally for three weeks after a abrupt stop. Bed karate is another popular leftover symptom-uncontrollable jerking of arms or legs.

    One of my buddies put it in a good way, he said about drugs ‘ in moderation they can be sacrament, in excess, closer to excrement’.
     
  3. TwoBear

    TwoBear Tele-Afflicted

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    I hear you man I have witnessed, I don’t wanna say two distinct type of people, but definitely there’s two camps that I have seen, The people can drink like you start and stop and whatever and what I call the true alcoholic-A person that can be sober for 12 years or however long (One I’m thinking of was 12 years and i’ve seen a few others with more years and less, But what separates them is no matter how long it’s been since they drank, by about second sip of booze, whatever it is, wine, whiskey maybe a little more beer, their eyes glaze over, and I have seen it actually take affect. If they just stop right there it’s a high high percentage of within a day to a weeks time they will be off again, drinking, on an upward spiral of a little more each time. I have seen it numerous times with different people.
     
  4. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    There's a lot of truth to this. Many people, probably most, can go to a party or bar and drink all night long, then they're done until the next time they go out. Or they can have a coupe of drinks at dinner and then be done.

    A true alcoholic, well, that's a different animal altogether. Once that first drink hits the brain, there's no stopping until you're unconscious. I've been completely sober for close to 16 years (coming up in September), and I have not even thought about alcohol/drinking for easily 15 of those years. It's just not a part of my life or lifestyle any more. However, I do know for fact that if I were to have just one beer I would be completely out of control immediately. Even after all of this time. So all I have to do is not have that first beer.
     
  5. Matt Sarad

    Matt Sarad Tele-Afflicted

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    I have a single beer once or twice a week. No weed ever. I gave up caffeine which means no coffee, decaf, tea, Coke, Pepsi, or Mountain Dew.
    Herbal tea in the morning.
    Water all day. Sparkling with dinner.
    An expensive bottle of wine once a month.
    After a traumatic brain injury which altered my vision, hearing, cognition, short term memory and general outlook, I can't afford to alter what I have left.
    I didn't touch a drop of alcohol in the first year of my recovery.
    The Dilaudid drip in my IV bag evidently killed the pain of my concussion, bleeding, and bruising in the brain. 13 broken bones and a fractured skull added to the paincation.
    In a week of ICU I remember it as a long day with weird episodes.
    8 years later, the memory of it all fades mostly
     
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  6. Fiesta Red

    Fiesta Red Poster Extraordinaire

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    August 8, 1998 was the last day I drank alcohol.

    I won’t go into detail about my habits, but I had spent the better part of 14 years drinking. I never did drugs, not even a single joint. Shoot, I’ve never even used tobacco.

    But man, I liked alcohol.

    I quit, cold turkey, and white-knuckled it for almost a year before it got better. It saved my marriage. I’m proud my daughter has never seen me drunk.

    I don’t have a problem being around alcohol—my wife is a moderate drinker, and I can go to/play in a bar or club without issue—but I know I can’t have “just one,” so I don’t start.

    I’ll play bartender for my wife and her friends when we throw a party, and I’m designated driver when we go out…but they drink so little and so rarely, those are rare occasions.

    Twenty-some-odd years later I finally found out I have extreme anxiety, which was the cause of a lot of my desire to drink.

    I’m glad I quit. My brother hasn’t, and there’s some evidence of early alcohol-induced dementia; he’s truly gotten increasingly paranoid and aggressive, and less intelligent than before (and he wasn’t exactly a member of the brain trust in the first place).

    The Big Blue Book helped me.
    Meetings didn’t; listening to people talk about drinking made me want to go get a drink, so I threw myself into prayer, hiking, yard work, reading, playing guitar and writing songs.

    Unsweetened ice tea, Ethiopian coffee or Topo Chico keep my hands busy when drinking is happening around me. Some people just can’t stand to see someone not drinking at a party or event, so I’ll order a Virgin Mary or a Cranberry Juice and Soda, and they’ll leave me alone, thinking I’m drinking.
     
  7. kingofdogs1950

    kingofdogs1950 Tele-Afflicted

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    You ain't just a woofin' it.
    I went through an inpatient detox program. Total lockdown and medically supervised for two weeks before the group went on to a nine week rehab program.
    We, the patients, had a special club we called 'The Three AM Club.'
    Every night there would be a crowd of people up at 3AM, unable to sleep. We would sit on the picnic tables and smoke cigarettes.
    Everyone was dog tired from not sleeping and wired from being without our drug of choice.
    Sadly, like many drug/alcohol treatment programs, it didn't work for me or most of the people I knew in the program.
    I and just about everyone I knew in the program went back to drinking and drugging within days of completion of the program.
    Took me a couple more years to QQ and its been ~25 years or so.

    Mark
     
  8. Willie Johnson

    Willie Johnson Tele-Afflicted

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    See, I don't know that one way or another for myself--but I don't intend to find out. NOOOOPE.
     
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  9. jrblue

    jrblue Friend of Leo's

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    Back to the OP: I listened to maybe 5 sec. total, from sections of the piece. I couldn't find anything in it whatsoever for the listener, but maybe it was therapeutic for you, for yourself, to make. I hope you will reconsider your refusal to quit drinking. I have no idea why posters are offering congratulations -- I think some of them think you moving into avbstinence and not reading your repeated comments saying you're not quitting. As the child of two vicious alcoholics I know well what alcohol can do and I wish you well in your relationship with booze. I have never known a true abuser/alcoholic to achieve healthy moderation, though I know some who have achieved abstinence. Sorry for the lecture, but I've had much of my life dominated by the alcoholism of others around me and it's not something I can support in others. Good luck with your own journey.
     
  10. Phrygian77

    Phrygian77 Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

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    I don't know that you can really categorize alcoholics. Everyone is different. It is a progression that happens over time, and I think how quickly that progression happens varies.
     
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  11. Milspec

    Milspec Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    I always kicked my habits by camping where I had zero access to the item in question. After 2 weeks, problem solved. It was always a rough 2 weeks, but when you are 30 miles from the nearest person sleeping on the rocks, your temptations don't matter.

    There was one time though were I was staying with a friend on the way out to the desert. I was sleeping in his basement in a sleeping bag and using Ambian to help me sleep. That was the item I was going camping to get out of my system.

    At about 3 am, I had to go to the bathroom very urgently. I remember stumbling down the hall in a state of half-consciousness and being unable to get the bathroom door open. I wrestled with it before using my shoulder to force it open, then found the toilet had one of those elevated handicap thingy so I had to stand up on my toes to pee in the toilet. I closed the lid and without flushing, stumbled back to the sleeping bag.

    In the morning my buddy came downstairs and asked what all the noise was in the middle of the night? I apologized and told him I had trouble opening the bathroom door. He walked down the hall, came back, and told me that there was a big hole in the drywall and somebody pee'd in the washing machine.
     
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  12. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I do note a distinction between those who just stop one day and get on with life, vs those who keep trying to stop but start up again over and over with the same bad results.

    Nothing to do with how they drank.
    Primarily relates to how they can or can't stop.

    Certainly there are problem drinkers who DO have a problem, but if they can just stop and not go back to it, they are not alcoholics.

    I'm told that there are binge style alcoholics who can stop for a few weeks with no problem.
    So it's more that the alcoholic cannot stay stopped, and when they start again it's not like they become the nice social drinker who has one or two, they quickly go back to the old mess.

    What that mess looks like certainly varies.
    Many keep drinking until their liver is shot because having a job makes it OK.
    Too bad to identify the alcoholic as a homeless jobless bum, but many heavy drinkers use that model to see their own drinking as just fine.
     
  13. TwoBear

    TwoBear Tele-Afflicted

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    I know the big syringe with Dilaudid very well, they would replace it in a big clear box, I guess so no one could tamper with it, when I was in the UCI burn unit. I could hit it at will, at first and then on a timer later.
    I was born with a natural tolerance to pain killers, I have heard From my parents when I split my lip open necessitating stitches, at 3years old, they said the doctor said this kid can take as much as a football player. In the burn unit they told me, 40+ yrs later I could put out a football team with what you take. So the opiates and the Novacaine’s and painkillers that the dentist gives, I need a lot of. On the few occasions I have used a friend or my lady’s prescriptions like a Xanax or trazodone or Clonopin, to help me sleep....Man I am toast! I just won’t even take them anymore. Someone gave me a trazodone that was 50 or whatever it is I don’t know micrograms milligrams, and told me they were strong so I cut it in quarters... basically 12.5... Jeanette was telling me honey your arm is hanging over the bed it’s going to fall asleep...She said I kept replying I can’t move my leg. The same thing happened with her except reversed I told her her leg was hanging over the bed and she said she couldn’t move her arm! I don’t touch trazodone. Xanax scares me I would only take a quarter of a number two bar maybe a few times a year. I haven’t felt the need for a few years.
     
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  14. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I have some opposite reactions to meds too, or with pain meds I really can't say they help but I'm in varying degrees of pain 100% of the time for the past 40+ years so it's hard to say if it was lessened by a med.
    I'm pretty sure that how I feel when I feel my best is a feeling that would send most normal people to the ER or walk in clinic.
    I don't bother because I know all the reasons I'm in so many kinds of pain.

    I've tried treatments for ADHD and none work but some make life much worse.
    There is a fact or an idea that people with ADHD have a reverse reaction to strong stimulants, where it calms us down.
    Doesn't work that way for me!
    IDK would that be a double reverse effect?

    Junk made me energized though, up to the point of too much that knocked me out cold on the floor.
    Energized yet focused.
    Most just doze off mumbling, so don't try this at home

    I pretty much manage as many issues as possible via alternative methods.
    The Western Diet could have been designed by Hitler himself to put Americans in hospital beds.
    So I eat like my life depended on it, rather than like my momentary emotional state depended on it.
     
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  15. Drew617

    Drew617 Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    Interesting experience.

    At 35 I got myself a neuropsych eval and ADHD diagnosis. ADHD is one of those things that laypeople self-diagnose, joke about, argue that it's overdiagnosed and is detrimental to kids. All things that turn me off pretty drastically, and caused me to brush off real symptoms and frustrations for a long time. A little dose of adderall has been marginally useful, but the understanding of my own cognition, strengths and weaknesses, was the real revelation. There's a little relief from guilt, I suppose, but what's really useful is the data and tactics that come out of it. I know where I suck versus the average person, and can try to avoid getting in the way. I know where I might be exceptional versus the average person, and can try to maximize that.

    I've never noticed any physical or mood effects from adderall, it's certainly not a speedy experience. From experience as a younger and less cautious guy, I've always hated speedy substances anyway. I don't need to be more wound up, thankyouverymuch. Nothing recreational about that for me.

    I've had all kinds of opioid painkillers, mostly legally, and always felt I was immune from them. Pre-crisis, I remember breaking my pelvis and a vertebra, and the Air Force sending me to go sit at home for a month with vat of percocet. I could tell they worked, and could find some recreation in those, because of course I tried to, but never felt the hook. Giving them up was mildly uncomfortable for about a day, not especially hard.

    A couple years back I had a kidney stone. I still lived alone and while recovering at home, not especially sloppy but definitely with the oxycodone they gave me and probably a manhattan, recall thinking very clearly This is very nice, relaxing on my couch right now, watching cartoons. This is a very good cartoon. I should relax on my couch and watch cartoons more often... Oh ****, there it is, that's the hook, and now I can't do this anymore.
     
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  16. Phrygian77

    Phrygian77 Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

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    I've got similar stories. Although, I have only been told what happened, since I have absolutely no recollection of what I did.

    One time was after crashing at a buddy's house one night. We, plus another friend, had been drinking that night. I woke up in the morning to the sound of my friend playing guitar and singing loudly in the same room.

    Half conscious, I remember the alarm on my phone started going off, which was in my jeans laying beside the bed. He must have seen me stirring, so he stops playing and asks point blank, "Why would you pee on a pile of clothes?"

    I reached down into the pile of clothes beside the bed and grabbed my phone out of the pocket of my jeans. I silenced the alarm, and then I said, "Maybe the same reason you'd pee on a guitar."

    I had no idea what he was talking about. For some reason, in my state of mind, I assumed he was joking about "extinguishing" my alarm going off. I was also annoyed to be woken up by the guitar and his godawful singing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
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  17. teletail

    teletail Friend of Leo's

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    People have been spouting that BS for years. An addict is and addict is an addict. The problem with an addict is that the little switch that tells normal people to stop is missing in our brains. They'll wind up abusing whatever drug they try to tell themselves is OK. The people that spread this nonsense should be 8itch slapped into next week. I had an uncle that fell for this line of crap after 20+ years sober. Wound up in jail with a DUI starting the whole thing over. He eventually quit again, but paid a pretty high cost for his ignorance.
     
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  18. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I found strict daily structure and jobs where I had big picture responsibility kept my ADHD as an asset rather than liability.
    Ona construction site it’s like all aspects of all rooms are all present from past to future, so I can organize subs in time and space with logical efficiency.
    Subs like knowing their needs are considered and cooperate when given their space as opposed to being told what todo and when.

    Multi tasking is natural when life is structured.

    My Mother got old, several cancers and dementia, so I moved back to Maine and took on elder care.
    Complete with doctors lawyers the courts estate planners and changes to her house all while newly married.

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha my life fell apart, but I did manage to barely hold it all together and take care of everybody’s needs except my own.

    Part of my ADHD solution is not stopping a central task until it’s completed.
    But that means I might miss lunch or other self care stuff.
    Getting out of the house is my weakest area and I tend to be late for things but then stay that course until resolution or completion.
     
  19. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Complete abstinence is hard, and not for everybody it seems, maybe not even for everybody that can’t manage using any combo of sober enhancing or fun boosting recreational substances.

    But the community that does the complete abstinence thing will welcome and and all who tried any and all substitution combinations but didn’t find their way back to healthy and functional.
     
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  20. Drew617

    Drew617 Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    A lot of that sounds very familiar - I try to make the hyperfocus productive, at least. Also the "big picture" stuff, it's very easy for me to understand and visualize complicated systems - technical, process, both - and interaction between components, constraints, inputs and outputs, whatever. I've been really lucky to land in a career where I can take advantage of that, or maybe just willful. :)

    It's a quality that's hard to find in others, actually. I manage a team of mostly younger engineers who are certainly intelligent and capable, tactically good. Getting them to see systems in their entirety as pictures - objects and color and directionality - is hard. It's the only way I know how to think. The one guy on my team who I know can do it well is almost certainly on the autism spectrum.
     
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