Affordable Dumble ODS clone from VHT is about to drop

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by scout2112, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. scout2112

    scout2112 Tele-Holic

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    I took it (and other parts of this thread) to mean that the quality is only going to be as good as the individual components... “hand wired” is meaningless if the tolerances of the resistors and capacitors are all out of spec or wrong.
     
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  2. Jared Purdy

    Jared Purdy Friend of Leo's

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    It struck me as another knee-jerk dump on hand wired amps. Of course not all hand wired amps are the same, but the vast majority of the well known ones out there, that are talked about frequently on this forum, will leave any PCB amp in the dust. His point was nothing but inflammatory and intentionally antagonistic.
     
  3. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    "The Inscrutable Black Box."

    It's like the three blind men and the elephant.


    I can assemble a kit of "OMG!" "Holy Grail" components, hand them off to a hack and I can think of a hack or two... and I'll end up with an amp that doesn't even work.


    Cheap resistors traditionally have been 20% tolerance. No tolerance band. That means they can be plus or minus 20%. In practice carbon composition resistors are generally high and they drift higher.

    Old Fender amps generally use resistors with 10% tolerance, silver band. In practice that means they start high and drift higher. 100k plate resistors drifted to 140k are pretty common. It doesn't matter in old Fenders for the most part. You can argue about it, you can point to the published values on the schematic. There are only a few parts in critical applications that need to be on spec.

    Most of yer modern crap is 5%, gold band. In practice they're close to spot on.

    From what I've seen of Dumble's work he measures everything measurable. That means he measures characteristics other builders wouldn't even think of measuring.


    As far as cloning goes...

    Uncle Howie was safe until the internet came along. A layer of silicone goop was enough to keep his secrets secret. With the internet we were able to establish neural nets of committed bootleggers to steal the keys to the Kingdom.

    Every Tom, Dick and Harry wandered in when we unlocked the door.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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  4. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I'll repeat and I'll try to be clearer ,for those with poor reading comprehension skills :): hand wiring, in and of itself, contributes nothing to the sound of the amp, for better or worse.
     
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  5. sds1

    sds1 Tele-Afflicted

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    You're not wrong. Not at all.
     
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  6. Jared Purdy

    Jared Purdy Friend of Leo's

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    When a reply goes into ad hominem assault mode, you know there's nothing to the argument. You've lost your point. Stay focused on the issue, instead of character assaults. And, you're wrong. And, you're another social media troll who's arrogant.
     
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  7. ping-ping-clicka

    ping-ping-clicka Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    remember the VHT Bulldog?
     
  8. sds1

    sds1 Tele-Afflicted

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    I believe he's correct.

    I'm interested to hear why you think, all else being equal, pcb would sound any different than handwired assembly.
     
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  9. Jared Purdy

    Jared Purdy Friend of Leo's

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    Empirical evidence suggests otherwise. That has been more than proven. The odd amp company, like Mesa, that uses very thick PCB boards, and the few others, are the exception.
     
  10. Askwhy

    Askwhy Tele-Meister

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    No onboard reverb is a deal killer for me. Wish they would add at least the digital like the fuchs casino series. But the speaker outs and ohm selector are the way every single amp head and combo should be, never could quite understand the hardwired jacks that necessitate an extra y-cable, (why-cable) for multiple speakers/cabs.
     
  11. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Me too :)
     
  12. sds1

    sds1 Tele-Afflicted

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    So the thickness of the PCB, an insulator very often made of the same exact material (FR4) found in handwired turret board amps, affects sound? How?

    Where is the empirical evidence, you got a link?
     
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  13. sds1

    sds1 Tele-Afflicted

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    I don't think it is coming.
     
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  14. scout2112

    scout2112 Tele-Holic

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    I haven’t heard of that. Do you mean the pitbull they made back when they were still affiliated with Freyette?
     
  15. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    It has an FX loop. A near antique Yamaha reverb will give you more surf than a busload of old Fenders. Or a Quadraverb...
     
  16. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

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    Yes - because the vast majority of boutique and custom amps happen to be hand wired - because it's just not practical to make one-off PCB's.

    But IMO you're missing the point - the "hand wiring" isn't what creates the sound. It's incidental and a matter of convenience. "Hand wiring" has no tone. Neither do PCB's. But specific components do.
     
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  17. Jared Purdy

    Jared Purdy Friend of Leo's

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    I thought that was clear enough. Of course the hand wiring itself is not the cause for better tone, it's the process of using better wire, not using cheap PCB (though some amp companies use thicker, higher quality PCB), better ways to mount tube sockets, etc. The "boutique" hand wired tube amps that are on the market, that are doing well, are using top shelf components, and that with the build process produces many amps that are better sounding (and more durable and more easily repaired) when compared to a similar amp that is mass produced with PCB and lesser components.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  18. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

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    Agreed. You seemed to be implying it was the hand-wiring itself that was a major "sound" component. Thanks for clearing it up.
     
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  19. Askwhy

    Askwhy Tele-Meister

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    True....with at least 2 more cables and another outlet. I like simple grab and go, you can still use anything you want in the loop if it is preferred.
     
  20. sds1

    sds1 Tele-Afflicted

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    It wasn't. Claiming existence of empirical evidence is not the same as citing said evidence. Thanks for taking the time to elaborate.

    What is the best sounding wire?

    Which can be mounted on pcb just the same.

    What is the best sounding way to mount tube sockets?

    How is an amp similar if it's using lesser components?????

    Refute this: A mass-produced PCB amp sounds better compared to similar a handwired amp using lesser components.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
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