Advice on delay/echo

[HolmfirthNJ]

Hi everyone, I love early rock and roll and rockabilly, and The Cramps and Thee Oh Sees… but I’ve, perversely perhaps, really struggled to actually like most delay/echo effects on guitar, and have generally preferred to try to get everything from fuzz, reverb and tremolo.
But I’m not giving up on delay/echo yet. I know what I don’t like: U2, soaring lead tones, and pretty, ambient delay.
And I know what I do like: 50s rock and roll recordings and dub reggae, where you really feel you can hear the room (echo seems a better word than delay), and echoes from old fashioned tannoys.
I have a Boss DD3 but I just can’t get on with the sound (despite John Dwyer using one v. effectively) so, options:
1. Try harder with the DD3
2. Maxon ADsomething (Poison Ivy as so often my reference point used one, and maybe the ‘dirty’ repeats would work better)
3. Boss RE-2 or RE-202 (close to the sound of the Roland Space Echo, used by Lee Scratch Perry for dub, and John Dwyer again)
4. Perhaps I should be thinking about this differently - there may be better ways - I think an actual tape echo or building an echo chamber are not practical but I’m definitely drawn to analog rather than digital technology where possible.
Anyway, thoughts gratefully received (I’m extremely grateful for thoughts from people recently on my Princeton Reverb, that have made me completely reconsider and reconnect with the amp)…

 

[Killing Floor]

My 2 favorite echo/tape sim delays are the T120 from Demedash and the Echosaurus from Sushi Box. And yes, I have several Strymon and AMT and other higher price point tape styles. Traditional multi head tape style delays, of my dozens of delay pedals those 2 are the ones on my board.

 

[JohnnyCrash]

As you probably already know, if you set delay pedals for slapback style rockabilly delay you should have only one single repeat and a very fast delay time…

So I’ve had a lot of success using an analog Carbon Copy pedal, but given the single-short repeat, digital delays usually work fine, too. But longer Pink Floyd/U2 type extended delays might be more noticeably “digital” sounding.

I’ve seen the Cramps live, but never paid attention to Ivy’s effects. She always sounded awesome through those Super Reverbs!

Back in the ‘90s I used a BOSS RV-3 delay/verb for good slapback, but for longer delays it sounded harsh and digital. I just got the latest iteration, the RV-6, and it sounds MUCH better.

I’m still not moving my Carbon Copy, though. It does great rockabilly slapback. So my vote would be to try the CC.

 

[Jsil13]

For slapback I used to use an Aquapuss, but then I got an old EHX Stereo Memory Man. It’s huge, but it nails that old school slapback.

 

[RetroTeleRod]

Sounds like you need an analog delay. For Rockabilly/50's tones I would recommend either the MXR Carbon Copy or the Boss DM-2w Delay. Sometimes adding a Reverb pedal after the delay with a Room setting mixed pretty low can make the echo sound even bigger. As others have mentioned, set your delay pedal for a single repeat and then adjust the length of the delay to fit well with the song's tempo. Check out this video for ideas...

 

[CalebAaron666]

I have a Fulltone Tube Tape Echo that I love for slapback, but it’s not all that practical.
On stage I use a Maxon AD9. I bought the Maxon cuz I found a 1981 AD9 for $150, and Poison Ivy used one. It turns out it’s a killer machine. Sounds awesome with time set to slap, the repeats knob at noon, and the repeat volume almost maxed.

 

[LowCaster]

The terms delay and echo are confusing. If you want to »hear the room » maybe you should be looking for a reverb/echo, like a room or hall reverb. A delay like a tape delay or tape echo is just repeating the sound with a delay time and decay. Though if it is able to manage stereo and/or with an added reverb you may benefit from a deeper effect.

Boss digital delay is nice for what it is, very clean digital delay. Cold, yes but I wouldn’t ditch too fast.

I tried the Electro Harmonix Memory Boy only to find out that the so called « analog« delay has a very strong decay, that is harsh and unnatural to my ears. Once again it’s a feature, some call it warm, and you may like it especially for dub reggae.

Boss re-20 was an attempt at recreating a vintage tape echo, but not really convincing and too quirky for me. The Nux Tape Core is cheaper but better sounding than the Re-20. I don’t know about the newer Boss versions Re-2 and re-202, probably improved.

The « digital tape echo » thing is what I was looking for. Digital precision allows for endless repeats if you want with control of the decay, plus simulation of the warmth, saturation and flutter of a tape recording. Look at the Strymon El Capistan, Catalinabread Belle Epoch and Dunlop Echoplex.

I bought the latter, Dunlop Echoplex (delay Ep103 and separate preamp EP101) and I am very pleased. Quite straightforward to use, you can press the « volume« button to adjust the effect from clean to aged tape. The only thing is that it doesn’t do very fast repeats, Minimum 40 or 65ms. Just like a real tape echo it seems.

There are other options if you want a fast repeat, slapback, double tracking, flanging, chorus…

 

[Jakedog]

The DD3 is my all time favorite delay. Because it’ll do pretty much anything. If Scotty Moore could use it for slapback, you know it’ll work.

That said, they were out of stock when I went to get a new one during that which cannot be named, so I ended up with a JHS 3 series delay. Two different settings on a mini-toggle. One for more modern and one for more vintage. I like em both and I typically do not get along with analog delays. Easy to use, sounds good, $99. Pretty hard to beat.

If you don’t need all the fancy crap like tap tempo, presets, etc, it’s a great little unit.

 

[Willie Johnson]

I like the Danelectro Dan Echo that I bought used. It sounds better with something in front of it (boost/od/eq) to give it a little push. None of my amps have an effects loop so these go straight into the amp. I've been more about echo/delay instead of reverb lately.

 

[Brent Hutto]

I've just about abandoned trying things other than varieties of tape echo. I have some good tape-emulation patches on my Boss DD-500 and my Line6 DL4 mkII that I really love. I use "tape" all the way from just slightly more than slapback, up to reverby echos all the way up to ambient and runaway feedback effects. Similar to LowCaster, I find all the analog and digital recreations of analog get too muddy or something, the die-off is unnatural to me.

 

[HolmfirthNJ]

Thanks everyone, really helpful replies. I’m thinking that perhaps delay/echo can seem hard to get right (despite being so apparently straightforward) is that there are different ways to get back to a natural echo from a room or echo chamber. The tape machine is not just the best way but it has its own really desirable qualities (analog warmth, preamp, unpredictability) but it’s not really a practical/affordable option. And then we’re into analog or digital delay pedals, and then digital recreations of actual tape echo, all of which fall short in different ways. Lots too think about. Meanwhile, for some fantastic live guitar echo, The Cramps:

 

[HolmfirthNJ]

I think that’s coming through a Maxon analog delay. Poison Ivy said in an interview in 2003 ‘There are some modern delays that sound like a tape echo by degrading the decayed sound in the way that real tape would sound. So it comes back with less high-end. The Maxon is pretty effective in creating that sound. I think the impression is that it’s tape echo. But I’m sure there’s somebody that can tell the difference – if they’re discerning to the point of neurosis.’

 

[micadoo]

Believe it or not, a $20 DanEcho is my go to for slap back. Thats about all it does, but built like a tank and you can probably get someone to give you one. For caverns I recently picked up a Caitlanbread Belle Epoch Deluxe and it has so many cool sounds in it, I doubt I'll ever get to hear them all. The pre amp in it is also incredible and takes an expression pedal to get you into full on Dub territory.

 

[drmordo]

There are ~1,000,000 delays around these days, so you will just have to try some different ones.

I love tape delay, and what I have found is a bit of modulation helps give a completely different vibe to the echo, especially if you let it echo a few times rather than just slapback. I have not tried a ton of pedals, but recently picked up a Foxgear T7E Baby which is a emulation of the Binson Echorec (which was not a tape echo, but kinda like one, google it if you care). It's pretty magical when I let it breathe a little bit.

 

[Maguchi]

Hi everyone, I love early rock and roll and rockabilly, and The Cramps and Thee Oh Sees… but I’ve, perversely perhaps, really struggled to actually like most delay/echo effects on guitar, and have generally preferred to try to get everything from fuzz, reverb and tremolo.
But I’m not giving up on delay/echo yet. I know what I don’t like: U2, soaring lead tones, and pretty, ambient delay.
And I know what I do like: 50s rock and roll recordings and dub reggae, where you really feel you can hear the room (echo seems a better word than delay), and echoes from old fashioned tannoys.
I have a Boss DD3 but I just can’t get on with the sound (despite John Dwyer using one v. effectively) so, options:
1. Try harder with the DD3
2. Maxon ADsomething (Poison Ivy as so often my reference point used one, and maybe the ‘dirty’ repeats would work better)
3. Boss RE-2 or RE-202 (close to the sound of the Roland Space Echo, used by Lee Scratch Perry for dub, and John Dwyer again)
4. Perhaps I should be thinking about this differently - there may be better ways - I think an actual tape echo or building an echo chamber are not practical but I’m definitely drawn to analog rather than digital technology where possible.
Anyway, thoughts gratefully received (I’m extremely grateful for thoughts from people recently on my Princeton Reverb, that have made me completely reconsider and reconnect with the amp)…

Try some rockabilly, slapback delay/echo. You just might like it. 200-250 ms delay with a single repeat or a couple of repeats at the most. Ibañez AD-9 Analog Delay works great for rockabilly.

 

[LowCaster]

The high end digital tape echo cost 200-400€, they emulate the real vintage Echoplex, Binson or Roland Space Echo that cost ten times more, if you can find them in working condition. Some copies using tape were made: Fulltone, and today the Echo Fix EFX, still expensive. The T-Rex replicator is the cheapest (about 450€ new), it uses a small regular cartridge tape, and seemed a bit noisy and Lo-Fi on Youtube demo, but nice. Then there are the less expensive vintage tape machines like the Wem Copycat.

 

[Beebe]

I think that’s coming through a Maxon analog delay. Poison Ivy said in an interview in 2003 ‘There are some modern delays that sound like a tape echo by degrading the decayed sound in the way that real tape would sound. So it comes back with less high-end. The Maxon is pretty effective in creating that sound. I think the impression is that it’s tape echo. But I’m sure there’s somebody that can tell the difference – if they’re discerning to the point of neurosis.’

Possibly some of the Pro Reverb amp effects on there as well... and the wamy bar. Spring reverb has a slappy sound.

Filtertron pickups have a spunky sound with quick decay (low sustain) that lends itself to this style.

And not exactly what you are looking for, but maybe a Pedal from Death By Audio would excite you.

 

[tomasz]

I think you might have the perfect tool at hand already (Dd-3), it will just need some tweaking! As somebody suggested previously, try to get a slapback type of setting.

 

[HolmfirthNJ]

Possibly some of the Pro Reverb amp effects on there as well... and the wamy bar. Spring reverb has a slappy sound.

Filtertron pickups have a spunky sound with quick decay (low sustain) that lends itself to this style.

And not exactly what you are looking for, but maybe a Pedal from Death By Audio would excite you.

Thank you, Yes, definitely a combination of the Pro Reverb, Filterons, whammy bar, and feedback from the hollow body Gretsch, and Poison Ivy of course- so many Cramps videos stay mostly on Lux so it’s great to see on this one Ivy really wrestling with the guitar- she’s completely in control which, I guess, is very much in keeping with the ethos of The Cramps.
I have a DBA Fuzz War - it can be kind of heavy but I’m getting used to it slowly. Sometimes I love it. Maybe the DBA Micro Dream would be interesting. I’ve also looked at the Echo Master for vocals- super expensive but…

 

[BobWithOneO]

My Chick-del-A is my favorite pedal. If I could only have one, this would be it. It's two delays stacked in one pedal.