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Advice for nitro color coat orange peel

Discussion in 'Finely Finished' started by Alaman, Oct 7, 2020.

  1. stratisfied

    stratisfied Tele-Holic

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    Actually, you have dry spray from spraying too light a coat from too far away. It's called a "dust coat" because the surface feels dusty from the dry paint and it will actually transfer to cloth when rubbed. If the surface just feels like fine sandpaper, it's the same problem but just to a lesser degree. Orange peel comes from applying too heavy a coat from in too close and/or your paint and nozzle moving too slowly across the surface. The paint bounces up from the surface forming the "orange peel" texture.

    You should be able to wet sand and follow with clear coat if you are confident you have a uniform coat and color unless you sprayed a metallic color (can't tell from the pic). If metallic, wet sand and reapply your color coat. Take Freeman's advice (and mine) and spray the body in the horizontal. You will not get any transition as the paint will blend naturally to the contours of the body or along the edge of the binding on a bound body. You will be able to apply more paint without fear of runs and the paint will flow out more evenly giving a better finish. Spray from about a foot away and at a 45 degree angle to the surface. Paint in continuous strokes the length of the body, overlapping each stroke by about 1/3 and keep a "wet edge" so the paint continues to flow out. Do not spray in crosshatch pattern as that will only create shading from laying the paint down at different angles.
     
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  2. Alaman

    Alaman Tele-Meister

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    I believe you’ve hit the nail on head. I took down my makeshift spray booth down this weekend because of rain and noticed how the nitro had created a “dust” on my turntable (lazy susan) and drop cloths. Obviously the nitro is atomized very fine and dries fast as it comes from the nozzle. I’ve probably been overly cautious about runs and sags so have been too light on my coats. I also may have taken the “multiple lights coats” advice with nitro to an extreme. I’ve sprayed more mist like coats moving the can too quickly and not laying down enough paint. I wet sanded this weekend and now have a smooth finish again but unfortunately sanded thru along one of the edges so I will be laying another color coat when this rain moves out. I’m hoping I can get by with one coat along that edge. After sanding, most of the clear is gone but not all so I hope the color over some clear will not be an issue. This is an opaque sonic blue color. Humidity will be favorable this week so I will start my spraying again using the advice I’ve gotten here and hopefully with better results.
     
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  3. Alaman

    Alaman Tele-Meister

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    Really bummed about the sand through. Tried to take things slow then got a little over confident as things were going well...
    103592AA-B4BA-4BD9-9078-52C73B0356C0.jpeg
     
  4. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Poster Extraordinaire

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    Thats fine. Shoot a couple more color coats and you will be in great shape to start piling on the clear onto a flat and smooth surface. The color coats just add color. Thats their only job.
     
  5. stratisfied

    stratisfied Tele-Holic

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    Looks like you may have gone right down to the wood there. You may want to spray a bit of white or light gray automotive primer over it. Duplicolor Filler Primer is good for these types of problems as it will quickly fill any end grain and sand to a feather edge. Give it just a couple light coats and then wet sand to level it when you're sure the wood grain is filled in.

    If the rest of the body is ready for clearcoat, you can just spot spray your color over the primer taking care to lay on light coats and feather them out beyond the repair to blend. The trick is to start spraying at a normal distance at the edge and bring the can back away from the workpiece as you move across the primered area so the paint blends rather than shows as an edge almost to where you are finishing each stroke in a dust coat. Lightly wet sand you're ready to clear coat again.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  6. Alaman

    Alaman Tele-Meister

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    Just thought I’d say thank you for the advice on this post again. I laid two coats of color today with can closer and slower passes. I used a bright light to shine on body so I could see how wet it was laying down and to better see where to overlap. Also, only sprayed laying horizontal. Happy to say after drying a couple of hours the finish is a whole lot smoother. No runs or sags. Ready for clear coats tomorrow. I don’t plan to sand again until I get good amount of clear on. I am just about out of color so can’t afford to sand through again.
    F7538989-D919-4057-B5BA-715D91D539A1.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
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  7. ladave

    ladave Tele-Holic

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    Looking forward to seeing the finish product.

    On my first body, I managed to sand through even the second time around after respraying. It's easy to do.
     
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  8. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Poster Extraordinaire

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    It's going to be beautiful when its finished. And in five years its gonna look like its been dragged down a dirt road for miles and you aren't going to remember any of this orange peel and sand through, etc. It will be even more perfect then, ha.
     
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  9. Alaman

    Alaman Tele-Meister

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    Thanks. I’ll try to come back a month from now and post results. I’ve had this hard tail Strat for a long time and love to play it. Going to be hard to stay patient but that is my goal. I think if I sand through again, this project becomes a relic ;)
     
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  10. stratisfied

    stratisfied Tele-Holic

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    That will make a nice guitar. Onward and upward!
     
  11. Alaman

    Alaman Tele-Meister

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    Laying clear coats down have been mostly successful. I am finding the occasionally lint/thread and having to stop and let dry overnight and work to sand it out. I am using tack cloth in between coats but guess there is no stopping the floaters from landing on a wet finish. In reality I have not had as much lint/grit as I thought I might compared to other paint projects I have embarked on. I think nitros quick drying nature that lends itself to minimizing that. One tip I’ve found that I will share...I do know that you NEVER try to fix a run or get debris out of your finish when wet but I just couldn’t help myself yesterday and committed the cardinal sin of attempting to remove a piece of lint as I was spraying. It did exactly what you think and created a messy divot where I touched it. I had an idea and got a dropper and lacquer thinner. I applied a couple of drops into the semi-wet paint where I created the mess and it smoothed the damage out. Not perfect by any means but created a workable surface to sand out the next day. It would have been a larger problem to have dealt with the divot after drying.
     
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  12. matman14

    matman14 Tele-Meister

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    Between clear coats sanding is the key for me.
    Build a good base of clear. Then sand it back. Then alternate spraying and sanding. Fairly aggressively so you are always laying clear on a flat, even surface.
    That way you are not spraying orange peel over orange peel and lumps on top of bumps.

    This way the final finish and polish is not a 20 hour ordeal of wet sanding through 15 different, ever increasing grits of abrasives. Instead, it's s quick, enjoyable and easy (and can mostly be done with power tools)
     
  13. Alaman

    Alaman Tele-Meister

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    I am down to attempting my final clear coat for the past two days. Each day I have laid a smooth clear coat only to have a piece of lint find it's way onto the wet finish. Unfortunately I have a strain of perfectionist in me. I accept the few inevitable specks that can only be seen close up under magnification but these have been a little larger than I can accept. I have been sanding them out the following day and also leveling the overall finish. I have enough clear coats on that I am more confident with level sanding. I am wet sanding using 600 and 800 grit. I must say that advice I have seen on this and other forums about wiping down with VM&P Naptha or Mineral Spirits has not worked for me. I have tried both after sanding to clean the surface and each time I end up with sticky hazy film that starts smearing the finish. It is interacting with the Nitro and I have to wait several hours for it to dry before I can spray again. I thought it had to do with not adequate curing time but I have tried it on my trial scrap that I haven't sprayed in days and get the same thing. It did this on my color coat (ColorTone - StewMac) and on my clear (Mohawk/Behlen - Clear gloss). Both are common reputable products so not sure what the issue is. I am now just using a water dampened rag and tack cloth which is working fine. Weather is perfect today so am hopeful to get that last pass on and then put it away for a few weeks. It will end up with 10 total clear coats (not spray passes but coats of 2-3 passes) with some of that sanded back during leveling and lint removal.
     
  14. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Poster Extraordinaire

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    I for one do not wipe with anything. I wet sand with water, remove the sludge with a damp towel and then wipe it once more right before shooting. I don't use a tack rag. Immediately before shooting I hit the surface with compressed air, then pop the gun on and shoot a coat.

    If I had a piece of lint in the final coat I probably would just sand it out as part of the wet sanding process and buff.

    I have used Colortone, Behlen and Cardinal lacquers - they all work fine. One of our members says that Colortone has some naphtha in its solvent base which causes it to dry slower than pure lacquer thinner - I have not noticed any differences, but I generally let finishes dry for at least two weeks before starting the wet sanding.
     
  15. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Poster Extraordinaire

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    I had that same thing happen on my final clear coats. I had the tack cloth in my pocket (I carried it into the paint booth with me to wipe down the surface before spraying) and I think pocket lint and dust was being transferred to the painted surface and I wouldn't find them until it was too late. Frustrating, but the ones that didn't get picked off before shooting seemed to pop right off when I wet sanded.
     
  16. stratisfied

    stratisfied Tele-Holic

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    Tack cloths will sometimes deposit tiny bits of the "tack" on the surface. I like to wipe down with a wet cloth after wet sanding and use compressed or canned air the blow away any remaining dust or lint right before spraying. Like Freeman said, anything that settles in the paint can be wet sanded or polished out as long as you have enough finish built up. You'll always make it worse if you touch anything while wet.
     
  17. eallen

    eallen Friend of Leo's

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    A lot to learn when each of us start out. 1st, nitro shouldn't go on heavy. If each coat looks like glass you are putting them on too heavy and it will take forever to dry. Spray many thin coats instead of thick ones. The last couple can be good gloss coats. If you are getting runs it is too heavy. Most orange peal with spray cans is how far the can is from the surface and hand speed.

    Spray with your surface perpendicular to the ground instead of flat and it will reduce dust in your finish.

    Keep at it and enjoy!
     
  18. Alaman

    Alaman Tele-Meister

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    I have finally finished my project so as stated I am posting pics of results. I am very pleased overall. Love the sonic blue color from StewMac. I’ve been happy with how “easy” the process has been to get very good results with rattle can. I came in with low expectations and was even ready to relic if things didn’t progress well. In a turn of events, things went almost too well. So much so that I got to being too much of a perfectionist on it. I was able to back off a bit and have still exceeded my expectations. There are a couple of dust threads in finish still but barely noticeable to most and in a heart sunk moment I chipped the finish when installing neck as it was a bit of a tight fit. That stopped me and reverted to correction over 2-3 more weeks. This was no where near as easy as a drop fill on a flat surface would have been since it was in the neck joint with lots of curves. I sprayed leftover nitro base, color and clear into jars and used micro brushes over several days to touch up. Not perfect but I learned where to stop after several mistakes. Most of this is hidden by pickguard and when fully assembled hardly noticeable at all. This project was my version of a beautiful 1965 sonic blue hard tail strat I saw on a Norm’s rare guitars episode. Thanks to all who helped along this journey. When weather gets better next year, I’d like to try another.
    2539C935-BD9F-4279-A27A-D6E29224796F.jpeg 5CBA09CD-7764-4A8F-925B-E27755D006B0.jpeg 916ACA4D-C0CD-43F1-8947-B787F32FC57C.jpeg
     
  19. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Poster Extraordinaire

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    That looks great. Can't wait for it to eventually check and show dings and wear spots just like the real thing. Then it will be perfect.
     
  20. stratisfied

    stratisfied Tele-Holic

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    Sweet!
     
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