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Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by stantheman, Aug 30, 2020.
What is your suggestion for a more reasonable time frame?
Seriously, if he doesn't want to get outbid, pay the asking price.
What's REALLY not cool is when you accept an offer and the Richard Cranium doesn't pay. Then your item is out of consideration until you cancel the sale.
Hell 24 hours is better than some of the 48 hour waits on ebay.
Fortunately a fair number of ebay sellers put a fair acceptance amount in the system and you get a yes or a no right away.
When I go to the grocery store I want to buy groceries.
Ebay and Reverb listing prices are 95% stupid high.
Buying BIN OBO listings is designed for negotiating a reasonable price.
If a BIN listing was reasonable the thing would sell and there would be no negotiating.
The whole reason for OBO is the fact that all the damned idiots ask too much for used gear that's the same damn stuff as you see in hundreds of other listings.
The complaint the OP made is that the seller is a retailer with a special secret!
Come on in to my store and shop!
If youlike one of my over priced average pieces of used generic guitar gear, make me a reasonable offer!
Same time tomorrow I will tell you my secret selling price.
IMO it's silly and petty tokeep your selling price a secret.
Reverb and ebay are retail sales businesses.
Fill your cart at the grocery store, then make an offer of the amount those groceries are actually worth?
Because the grocer hopes some idiot will pay too much?
But is also willing to sell for a fair price?
But will only sell for a fair price if the buyer is willing to wait a day before the seller will tell them the secret retail price?
Sure, secret pricing and a waiting period to be let in on the secret is good retail.
In my dumb little world, a retailer who keeps the retail price secret can program the secret price into the system.
Buyers who offer enough get an offer accepted message.
Buyers who offer too little get an offer declined message.
Then the buyer ought to have a short time to make payment of the agreement is cancelled, like 30 minutes.
Of course we can look at this as buyers being impatient, but how many retailers require a 24 hour waiting period after buyers choose their goods to purchase, so that the retailer can do whatever retailers do when they wait 24 hours to tell the buyer what the secret retail price is.
Sure we can claim shoppers who want to buy when shopping are impatient.
But it's just as fair to say retailers who keep their prices a secret have got some issues too.
Here's my $500, is that enough?
For me, if a seller can't make up their mind, I have other things to do.
Let me know when you decide on your price and if I'm still waiting around I might buy it.
Yesterday I offered $500, you hemmed and hawed then today you are getting into a legal contract dispute to force me to come back with my $500 that you refused to accept yesterday?
The prices are high because it’s a sellers market. We’ve all seen it in the used market, asking prices are very high across the board unless you want something there is no demand for right now like PA equipment.
Until their sales slow down, prices will keep rising and they’ll be less willing to negotiate a lower price. For better or worse, we’re basically complaining about capitalism here.
Well the pricing and actual value behind them get IMO undeserved rave reviews on the internet.
We have a culture of fan boys blogging about how awesome $450 Chinese guitars are, resulting in it being profitable to buy a new Squier and part it out.
I'm not going to convince anyone to change their mind, but after 45 years buying selling and using guitars, I find that today I'm just not impressed by the quality of affordable guitars compared to asking and selling prices.
Labor and materials cost in China (and other non US countries with low unskilled worker standards of living) is so low that we can buy a more nicely finished (than a Squier Affinity) serviceable guitar (with far more labor/ semi hollow construction compared to a Squier Affinity at the same price) branded Grote for $100.
Hell we can even buy near identical high end Gibson fakes that cost $3000 to make and sell here, for less than $300.
So if an American Standard costs $1000, a GOOD Squier should cost $100.
Fender though makes the $100 Squier much lower quality than the $100 Grote, or if comparing the 10x higher production cost here, the $100 Squier should be the same quality as the $1000 Am Std.
So from my fool on the hill view, lower end/ affordable Fender prices are way too high.
True though that right now brick & mortar retailers are way down on used guitar stock.
But asidefrom that, it is not a sellers market!
Internet bloggers make it appear to be a sellers market.
In reality, there are way more used guitars than players who NEED MORE GUITARS.
GAS IS A SICKNESS!
Until we stop obsessively shopping for more and more and more guitars, the prices will stay up in the stupid high range.
Some of us remember when we were really happy to have one good Fender and one good Gibson plus maybe a nice Martin.
That three guitar stable was as good as it got for a working musician.
Or maybe we preferred a Gretch and a Tele, but we were really satisfied with very few top shelf guitars.
Really, who here that was a gigging guitar player in the '60s/ '70s came home from gigs and shopped for cheap import guitars because we needed a Chinese Tele in every color?
I don’t disagree, and I’ve personally stopped buying used gear online right now unless I actually find a deal. It seems someone is paying asking (or close to) asking price if the prices are staying this high. I still find deals all the time on FBM, but not much on reverb/eBay.
12 hours is reasonable.
If you can’t get it together in that space of time....
to add anything else is needless.
24 hours for an offer is No Big Deal.
An offer doesn't remove your item from the market.
72 hours to Pay is outrageous. Your item is off of the market while they decide if they want to pay or not.
Let me tell you about this one...
My most recent attempt at a transaction on Reverb.
I put my item up on Reverb at $450.
I get an offer of $300.
I counter $350.
18 hrs later, he counters $325.
I wait, and see if anyone else is going to jump in.
At about 18 hours, I accept his offer.
I get a message from him the next day, telling me that he had bought, and paid for, another item on Reverb. He wanted me to cancel the transaction, because he didn't have the money to honor our deal, and that if I wanted him to pay for it, I would have to wait a week...!
Bear in mind that Reverb offers the Buyer 72 hours to pay for an item.
I contacted Reverb, and they informed me that not only could they not make him pay it, but that they were cancelling the transaction. Nothing really happens to the "buyer", outside of "having a note placed on the account".
72 hours to "maybe" pay for an item is absurd.
An item doesn't leave the market on Ebay until it is paid for.
"Legally Binding", in the Reverb world, is largely fictitious.
(The bright side of this is that I sold my item 5 days later, face to face for my asking price.)
If I lost my phone it wouldn't concern me too much. I dont live in my phone.
If I'm selling stuff on reverb I like the
24 hr thing. If someone places an offer on my item at 8 or 9 at night I may not
See it for 20 hrs..I'm just not that addicted to the innerweb.But I'd like
to have that time to just see the offer .
Or think about it or have a better offer
Come in. But mostly I hate to miss an opportunity to sell an item.my Idea as a potential buyer is if you put best offer
You should be willing to at least deal
A bit on your item. If on a 200 dollar
Item someone offers 180 you should
take it. Otherwise dont use best offer.
One nice thing about this thread is sometimes i think its only younger folks who are tech addicted and entitled..kinda fun when stereotypes get challenged.
What if I'm working a 12 hour shift + travel time to and from work? Or if someone makes an offer late evening? Do you want me to check my emails and send a reply before I go to bed or between dropping the kids off at school and my commute to work?
Sure if you place an offer at 9am, 12 hours will be more than enough for most people (there's still the possiblity they work nights) but there are many scenarios that it won't be.
Aside from Dame Diana Rigg and perhaps a Marshall Model 1962 and even an AC Sports Car I am forced to confess that what is available in “The Shire” is readily obtainable in The USA. So please don’t worry yourself too much over my proclivities.
Well sure but all that depends on your relationship with selling stuff online.
Reverb and ebay market themselves as professional retail sales businesses.
CL offers no service at all.
Sellers can list on a pro retail site like ebay or reverb with no intention of behaving in a professional manner.
If getting offers is really important to you, set your notifications to text you when an offer comes in.
If sellers don't want to respond for a day or so, why expect buyers to wait around for a day or so?
Both arguments have valid points but neither is the only correct version of retail.
For me, if I'm ready to buy, and a hobby seller seems not really professional, I'm not going to lock myself into a 24or 48 hour hold while a seller thinks about it, or hopes for a better deal.
Buyers and sellers equally hope for a better deal.
Sellers lose buyers like me who don't want to wait day after day while several sellers think about their higher than the market will bear prices on the same piece of gear.
Case point is pedal power supplies: better versions tend to be priced awfully high used on ebay and reverb, while often missing $30 worth of cable connectors. On any given day there are more than ten I'd buy at the right price, but actual selling prices are kept secret by the sellers. So I'd have to make an offer, wait a day, make another offer, wait another day, for ten days.
Just to learn the SECRET selling prices on variably poorly photographed, often beat up, missing parts, common items in used condition with no warranty, where that many sellers want to get highest possible price.
Bear in mind that along with years of buying and selling gear I use, I was also a flea market dealer and picker, where I might buy an item at 7am, sell it to another dealer at 8am, who might then sell it at 9am to a retail buyer or dealer.
This market is at the same time obese with used gear, while saddled with sellers who are obsessive about getting as much as possible.
Of course it's fine to hold out, but I'm not sure sellers get that they block lots of potential buyers who are actually ready to pay, in favor of flakes who are fishing based on the long wait with no certainty of a purchase.
I'd bet that shoppers who want a 1hour dealer window for the retailer to accept or decline, are generally buyers with the money right there and the willingness to spend it.
So the style of not wanting to have to be a retailer while hoping for the best $$ may work to bring in the flakey shoppers trolling for info.
I make some money at a job where I might get a call in the middle of the night, then have to drive to a job and fix stuff.
Answering a text offer on an item I listed for sale isn't that big a problem, unless I'm rock climbing stuck in Saskatchewan.
In which case sellers put a notice on the listing that they are away for a few days!
Point being we have options, and neither is right or wrong, but not wanting to be prompt might attract others who are also not particularly diligent.
So sellers who say they wait 24 hours because buyers are flakes?
I try to be as prompt as I possibly can be in responding to questions and offers. Most of the offers that I receive are typically 66% - 70% of the asking price. I am almost always going to counter offer those.
Counter offers have 24 hours to respond, as well.
2/3 of the Counter Offers that I have made have expired due to exceeding 24 hours.
Get an Offer at 8:30,
Counter Offer at 8:45,
Reverb's notification system leaves a LOT to be desired. You'll get an email before you get an alert directly on Reverb, or at least it seems that way.
eBay and reverb are definitely more up market than Craigslist (or gumtree the UKs equivalent) but they're not exclusive for business users and they don't advertise themselves to be so either. I prefer to sell with a site with a bit of protection so I avoid sites similar to Craigslist.
My post was just to demonstrate that 12 hours can easily be too short for some casual sellers and the site has to accommodate everyone. I'm sure most professional sellers have a faster response time.
I personally don't play games when selling, I go by the going rate for items (by looking at sold listings). I'll list the item accordingly, not including an "or best offer" and wait patiently. If it sits for too long I'll review the listing see who has sold in the time in-between and decide if I need to readjust my price.
Right your habits are yours and we all have our own.
My feeling looking at buying and selling everywhere is that if I make an offer on CL, at a yard sale, in a guitar shop, at a car dealer, or anywhere stuff is sold, the rep I ask may not be able to answer right away because they have to ask the manager or any other reason.
Why then force me into a contract with a 24 hour hold?
Is any seller can’t answer, they can call back later and say they are agreeable, without the buyer being required to buy 18 hours later if the seller or manager finally gets the message.
I suspect this started with eBay where they wrote much of the book on middle man managed used junk selling.
Much of that platform was used junk, not all high dollar known value gear.
ebay created that system and reverb just adopted it because it seems to work.
So again, not just you but why do lots of us feel that if I want to make you an offer, you will only let me do so if I first contractually agree I will buy it a day later if you want to think about it, or if you’re not getting your emails.
I just don’t see how it’s essential or better.
Same with buyers getting a day to pay!
If you can’t pay, don’t agree to buy!
And if you can’t answer my offer today, don’t demand my money tomorrow for an offer I made Yesterday!
Again not you specifically, more to all who think buyers should be forced to pay tomorrow for yesterday’s offer that went ignored.
Either program in your accepted price or email the buyer when you get back from work or from vacation or wherever we go with no internet access.
I would literally have spent a couple hundred $$ on eBay or reverb in the last couple of weeks if not for secret prices and a waiting period holding me from buying from a seller who was ready to sell.
WRT my use of the term “secret prices” maybe nobody here does it but I see that constantly in recent sales, where nothing I’m looking for sells at listed price, and nothing gets listed at an actual selling price.
Or if stuff gets listed at a realistic selling price it sells really quick, like less than half a day because I look several times every day for weeks.
I see one after another listing priced too high, then see one two three offers, then finally sold. Takes like a week plus whatever the buyers payment time is after the seller seemingly strung them along a few days.
Could have sold it days earlier if the listed price wasn’t a joke.
Does that make sense to sellers here?
These times are getting stranger and stranger...