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According to the second guitarist in my band Black Sabbath are not metal.

Discussion in 'Music to Your Ears' started by Blazer, Jul 1, 2017.

  1. Blazer

    Blazer Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Last Tuesday as our rehearsal came to an end our second guitarist said that he'd forgotten his wallet and thus had no way to take he train home.

    So I decided to be the nice guy and drop him and our Bass player off using my car. During the drive I put on a CD which started with "Heaven and hell" by Black Sabbath and he said "That sounds good, who is this?" so I told him "Black Sabbath but without Ozzy, that's Ronnie Dio doing the vocals."

    He then said that he couldn't believe what a difference just a singer made. "Well the kings of metal weren't going to stall doing the same thing over and over." I said. at which he went.

    "I do not consider this metal."

    At which me and our bass player went "WHAT?"

    He then explained that to him metal means Cookie Monster vocals, fast shredding and down tuned guitars and named a lot of modern day bands as examples on what "metal" is.

    I told him "You must be joking, Slayer's "reign in blood" had been chosen as the heaviest metal song ever and they have none of the things you've just named." at which he went "Well to be honest, I don't consider Slayer to be metal either."

    He then said that he did understand that back when that stuff first came out it WAS metal but as he put it "The times have changed to much and so did the music, so bands like Sabbath and Slayer are no longer metal."

    I was baffled.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
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  2. soulman969

    soulman969 Telefied Ad Free Member

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    That's OK Blazer. We used to have a thread a month around here debating what country was and wasn't 'til it finally stopped in a stalemate. :D
     
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  3. Dismalhead

    Dismalhead Poster Extraordinaire

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    I've met a lot of young'uns over the years that say the pioneers of metal, when the term was invented, aren't metal. They say it's "classic rock". I say we take the term back and make them come up with new one's to describe their screamo crap.
     
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  4. richa

    richa Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    I have sometimes wondered if rock, hard rock, metal, etc are mostly defined but the degree to which they annoy people older than the listener. Hence the sliding window. :)

    Black Sabbath is probably too respectable to be metal now. They probably play it at political black tie fund raising dinners.

    Just to be clear... I'm only being half serious.
     
  5. Paul in Colorado

    Paul in Colorado Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I can tell you with certainty. Black Sabbath is not Country!

    Wait? What were we discussing?
     
  6. VintageSG

    VintageSG Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

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    Is he normally that devoid of clue, or did he make an exception for you?
    Cookie monster vocals do not metal make. Play him some Napalm Death, one of the pioneer bands of sounding like a whale with laryngitis barfing during a thunderstorm.
    Too many sub-genres now. Can we go back to just Metal and Heavy Rock please. Life was simpler then. Give me vocals I can just about understand, guitar solos that have some melody in them instead of endless sweep picked self-congratulatory, self-pleasing, in a gentlemens way, runs of exotic scales on guitars with too many strings and things that go 'wibble'. Give me drums with timing, style, feel, movement instead of basha-basha-blastbeat-bash. Give me bass lines that wander melodically, played on basses with FOUR strings. Please don't give me hair metal. Ever. Just don't.
    I too may not be being entirely serious.
     
  7. RevBillyG

    RevBillyG Tele-Meister

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    Black Sabbath is Classic Rock.

    If you still think it's metal, you're old.


    Like me.
     
  8. Brad Pittiful

    Brad Pittiful Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    id call them...hard rock...like they were called in the 70s...but i only listened to the ozzy sabbath...the dio stuff may be in the metal zone...dont know as i never listened to any sabbath that wasnt ozzy except maybe a snippet of heaven and hell with dio
     
  9. Fred Rogers

    Fred Rogers Tele-Afflicted

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    Black Sabbath not metal? And Lawrence Welk is hip-hop. :rolleyes:
     
  10. kelnet

    kelnet Telefied Ad Free Member

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    This is kind of an interesting point. Many of the riffs and sounds and chord combinations of the earliest metal bands were eventually incorporated into other forms of music, to the point that teenage-pop bands like Savage Garden were using Sabbath-like elements in their music. So maybe younger people don't notice the other elements and only hear the guitars, which means that Sabbath's guitar sound doesn't really stand out from pop bands that use heavy distortion. The Black Keys, for example use bluesy chord sequences and heavy guitars, just as early Sabbath did. So, rather than try to sort out the complex differences that make one band metal and the other band pop-rock, it's easier to lump them all together.

    However, I would fire that guitarist from your band if I were you.
     
  11. Danjabellza

    Danjabellza Friend of Leo's

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    That's like saying a model T isn't a car. It's practically the original! It was the car that made cars know. Likewise sabbath was one of the first metal bands, they started the genre with a few others. lol people are crazy.
     
  12. RevBillyG

    RevBillyG Tele-Meister

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    Black Sabbath is still music...

    It's just not the babe magnet that model T used to be.
     
  13. thunderbyrd

    thunderbyrd Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Black Sabbath has Geezer Butler in it. Geezer Butler is the greatest punk rock guitarist of all time. Therefore Black Sabbath is the greatest punk rock band. I proved this conclusively on the old Guitar World forum, before the government made them take it down. They didn't want people to know the truth.

    Also, you should fire the silly git.

    I really miss that forum. I could be myself there.
     
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  14. Brad Pittiful

    Brad Pittiful Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    so who are you here?
     
  15. SecretSquirrel

    SecretSquirrel Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    The second guitarist needs to study up on Heavy Metal Subgenres:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_genres

    (I love these musical subgenre lists LOL):

     
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  16. SecretSquirrel

    SecretSquirrel Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    And Black Sabbath did tune their guitars down (half-step I think).
     
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  17. thunderbyrd

    thunderbyrd Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    The fake polite mature boring buttwipe version, careful to avoid sensitive issues. I was a hell of a lot more fun on GW.
     
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  18. kafka

    kafka Tele-Afflicted

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    I remember when I thought that Back in Black was the heaviest, darkest metal I'd ever heard. I couldn't believe that a band could be so heavy. Now they call AC/DC blues-rock.

    Of course, this is real heavy metal ...

     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
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  19. Big_Bend

    Big_Bend Poster Extraordinaire

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    I believe this is the correct perception from someone who likes more of the current metal bands. Sabbath is so far away from what metal is today, its not even in the same ballpark, and very tame by comparison. I have no problem with someone saying Sabbath used to be considered metal but they no longer qualify.. times change man.. all good.
     
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  20. AZkoaMan

    AZkoaMan Tele-Meister

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    If there's any doubt that Black Sabbath is metal all you have to do is listen to the first song on their first album. How is "Black Sabbath" anything but metal? Those two power chords and that long trill over pounding drums, followed by the verse that sounds like in was written and recorded in a castle dungeon, the Satanic narrative, the second half of the song with its up-tempo galloping groove, the whole climatic solo and final chords...no, if you think that's anything other than metal you need your head checked. They drew the blueprint and laid the foundation for metal in 1970. Everything else we consider metal has been built upon that foundation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
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