About to go down a rabbit hole, opinions please.

[jdl57]

A little background: Last summer I bought a Warmoth neck with a 10"-16" compound radius. There is nothing wrong with the neck, but I just can't warm up to the compound radius. So I have been testing out all of my guitars with radii from 7.25" to 12". I don't have any trouble with any of these necks, but I discovered that I actually play the best on the 7.25" radius. So, I went shopping for a 7.25" neck, preferably from Fender, and I found a Brent Mason with a used stamp and the serial number partially scratched out. I have heard nothing but good things about this neck, so I bought it. Not leaving well enough alone, I found a Fender Brent Mason body, pristine, never having anything mounted on it. I found some used Sperzel locking tuners, and a couple of used pickups. So far I have $1,500 into this with about $900 left to go. $600 of that is the bender from Joe Glaser. And, finally, the neck sits too high in the pocket of the guitar body I originally wanted it for, and I don't want to shave the pocket down.

So, here's the dilemma. I am look at about $2,500 for a finished guitar, about the same price I can buy one used with a C.O.A. and a case. This is the only disadvantage I can see. Other than that, this guitar would have all Fender parts.

The advantages are:

1) I get my choice of pickups. I already have a Seymour Duncan Tele Hot Stack for the bridge--the stock pickup. I found an early version of the S.D. Strat Hot Stack, the one Brent Mason uses. At least that's what I have been led to believe. The neck position is up for grabs, but unless I can find a good deal on a used one, I will probably go with Sunday Handwound, a one man shop. I have a set of his Jazzmaster pickups and really like them.

2) I'll be using the new, and improved, wiring from Joe Glaser. Joe is the one who wired, and installed the bender, on Brent Mason's guitar. Joe prefers his new wiring system, and it only uses 2 knobs. Music City Bridge/Glaser Bender will be doing the bender install.

3) Joe recommends shorting out the bottom stack on the Strat pickup, using it as a pure single coil. The Hot Stacks are noiseless i.e. stacked humbuckers. I doubt I would do this mod on a "real" Fender.

4) Since the guitar will be visually altered anyway, I have contemplated other visual mods, like a chrome control plate, and a red pickguard to match the red cover on the middle pickup.

So, until I send the body to Nashville to have the bender installed, I can still abort this project, sell off the parts I have purchased, and recover most of my expenditure. I could save $600 plus shipping, and not install the bender, and make it into a kind of cool, but mostly standard guitar. The Brent Mason Telecaster is not a guitar I have lusted after, it's not beautiful to look at, not an oject d'arte. It's a tool, purpose built to be the swiss army knife of guitars, and I appreciate that.

The questions:

1) Am I dumb for doing this? (I think I already know the answer to this question.)

2) If one builds a guitar using all Fender parts, can it still be called a Fender? Was Clapton's Blackie a Fender or a partscaster?

3) What do you think about leaving out the bender? That would leave a hole next to the strap button, and it will cost more to install if I so decide later. The bender would probably just be a novelty to me, as I have never used one.

What do you think? By the way, this will be my third build, fourth if you count me gutting my Squier Jazzmaster 12 string and replacing almost everything. My avatar was my first build, and is still my favorite guitar.

 

[guitarbuilder]

I think you can call it a Fender partscaster clone because that is what it is. I'm using the analogy of muscle cars when somebody does something similar.

Personally, I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a guitar when you could get premium parts and have one assembled for less. The neck is the most critical piece.

 

[Happy Enchilada]

For that kind of $$$ you could get a really swell gently used ES335.
So no, I would NEVER sink that kind of $$$ into a partscaster.

 

[schmee]

The thing missing from your assembly, or from a Custom with C.O.A. is : What is the end result?
Playing a guitar and finding one you bond with is priceless.
An accumulation of parts that you assemble, or teh Custom Shop assembles, has the risk that it may be deadwood with no mojo.

I can't explain it any better than that really.
One of the worst Strats I ever played was a Trans Blue Flametop Fender Custom Shop guitar. There were no imperfections in it visually, it's just had no mojo, tone or feel to me.

 

[jdl57]

Three responses and you all basically told me what I needed to hear. I have enough parts to make this playable. I'm going to put it together and see what I really have.

The neck is the most critical piece.

I agree with this statement completely, and this Brent Mason neck is what drew me to this guitar in the first place. Now that I have had one in my hands, I can say it's really nice.

The thing missing from your assembly, or from a Custom with C.O.A. is : What is the end result?
Playing a guitar and finding one you bond with is priceless.
An accumulation of parts that you assemble, or the Custom Shop assembles, has the risk that it may be deadwood with no mojo.

My first partscaster was this:

Guitar Mill paulownia body, Guitar Mill thin D Strat style neck with a 1/4 sawn, flame maple roasted fretboard. It cost $1,800, $650 of that was for the Ron Ellis pickups. As soon as it was assembled, it replaced my Broadcaster RI as my favorite guitar. Before this guitar, I assumed it wasn't possible to make a guitar better than Fender. I was wrong. Yes, I'm bonded with this one. Running my hand over this neck is positively sinful. The Brent Mason neck feels a lot like this one, but it's a little thicker.

This is my second partscaster: Closeup with my first pickup try, a Lollar Charlie Christian.


This is the guitar with the neck I don't care for, my second build. I should see if the Fender neck fits on here. This one took some tweaking, three pickup changes, and different strings to make this sound the way I wanted. I had made plans to sand this down to a 9.5" radius. I still might do that. I think I have about $800 into this one. I bought the body, paulownia, from Guitar Fetish to learn how to paint.

I'll let you know How it goes with the Brent Mason.

 

[old wrench]

Bender guitars are a specialized sort of guitar - they are great if that's your style of playing, but their usefulness would be lost for a player like myself - I play blues and blues/rock - lots of bends, but not the Nashville type.

Put it together and see what you think - if those Nashville type of bends are your thing, you can always send it off for the modifications later.


.

 

[ctmullins]

I have opinions. I think if you’re building a guitar, you should build something that didn’t exist before. Otherwise, just buy off the rack.

 

[jdl57]

The thing missing from your assembly, or from a Custom with C.O.A. is : What is the end result?
Playing a guitar and finding one you bond with is priceless.
An accumulation of parts that you assemble, or the Custom Shop assembles, has the risk that it may be deadwood with no mojo.

Never fear, it has mojo to spare, and we have bonded. The bridge and middle pickups are the final pickups--Seymour Duncan Hot Stacks.The current neck pickup is an inexpensive P90 I had laying around. It will be replaced with a mini humbucker. It's the only pickup I had that would fit the rout. Acoustically, it is quite loud for a solid body. According to my bathroom scale, it weighs 7.4lbs.

The neck is everything I was expecting and hoping for. It's thinner than a standard C, but fatter than a D. The 7.25" fretboard radius works like I think it should, and is smooth and satin finished. It feels like bare wood. The edges don't seem rolled, and the fretwork is top notch. This neck is what started this build, and I am not disappointed. If Fender sold this neck separately, it would be $800, like the other "fancy" necks.

Personally, I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a guitar when you could get premium parts and have one assembled for less. The neck is the most critical piece.

These are premium parts, a Fender swamp ash body, a high end Fender maple capped neck, and Seymour Duncan pickups. The tuners are Sperzel locking tuners, and the wiring is a Joe Glazer design from Music City Bridge. Joe Glazer did the wiring, and bender, on Brent Mason's guitar. If I was having someone else do the assembly, it would not be less expensive. As it turns out, I am pretty good at guitar setups.

As I said, my first build, the pink guitar above, cost $1,800 in early 2021. Six hundred fifty of those dollars went to the Ron Ellis pickups. Yes, I would buy them again. Today, after the great guitar price inflation, that would probably be $2,150. This one will come in just under $2k sans bender. I know that everyone thinks that's too much for a partscaster, and maybe it is, but all I have to do is pull out my 2000 vintage Danelectro to appreciate high quality in a guitar. This is quality. It will be my primary guitar for at least the next six months, maybe forever, I don't know yet. I am pleased with the results. It makes a wide variety of tones, I realize that was Brent Mason's intent, and once I figure out the novel switching system, i.e. any combination of pickups, and on the bridge setting (it's a 5 way switch with a push pull) you use the bottom knob to roll in or off the middle pickup. There is no tone control. And did I mention that I love the neck?

 

[photondev2]

IMHO, your budget is too high.

This is my experience. This is the first electric I purchased, and it is probably my favorite guitar. It started as a Route 101 strat copy, and I have used it as a platform to learn and test different components. In its current form, I estimate I have a $450 investment. I know that prices have gone up.

Body is made of Spanish Cedar, neck is Fender - neck is a critical component, Fender locking tuners, Fender Tex Mex pickups - really sweet after some height tweaking, original bridge and pots, after market pickguard. The only thing I would have preferred to have different is the finish, I prefer nitro, but I am not changing it. Sounds and feels great plugged and unplugged.

 

[jdl57]

IMHO, your budget is too high.

If you want Fender, U.S. made parts, it costs money. An American vintage II 1951 Telecaster neck sells for $799.00. This neck is marked "USED", I paid $599.00. I doubt I could get one now, and I wanted this particular neck. I found the body on Reverb also, at the same time. Four hundred thirty five dollars, no "make an offer". So now I'm up to $1,035 just for the wood. A used S.D. Hot Stack for both the bridge and middle, $75 and $125 respectively, and probably $150 for the neck pickup, $120 for the controls, $30 off new, about $100 for the tuners, $50 for a pickguard, probably $100 for all the remaining little stuff, adds up to another $750 making the total $1785. I haven't decided on a bridge yet, if I get a 6 saddle Fender, it's $22. If I go three saddle, Music City Groove Master is all I will use now, they are that good, $56 saddles and bridge. So, $1,841 for the lot. If you were building your guitar today, it would be $450 for just the neck, tuners, and pickups. And the tuners are on sale right now. I have a 2020 Broadcaster. It was $2,000. Today, an American Vintage II 1951 Telecaster, the same guitar with a different headstock decal, is $2450. Add a pickup, a knob, and a bender, and you have the Brent Mason at $3050. I own a Squier Jazzmaster XII, $471 list, the hardware, especially the tuners were junk. Notice I used past tense. I also recently purchased a G&L Tribute Comanche. A blem, 25% off with another 25% off because of a sale. Eight hundred dollar list for $461. It's a lovely guitar and the hardware is not junk.

neck is a critical component

Absolutely! And, as I previously stated, I wanted this particular neck. This is the only neck I know of with this profile. The guitar is a faithful reproduction of a 1967 Telecaster, at least as far as the body and neck go. When Fender presented Brent with the first neck prototypes, he wasn't pleased, and they reprofiled the neck until Brent was happy. He says it feels just like his neck. Of course, I could have paid $4,000 for an actual 1967 neck.

 

[photondev2]

If you want Fender, U.S. made parts, it costs money. An American vintage II 1951 Telecaster neck sells for $799.00. This neck is marked "USED", I paid $599.00. I doubt I could get one now, and I wanted this particular neck. I found the body on Reverb also, at the same time. Four hundred thirty five dollars, no "make an offer". So now I'm up to $1,035 just for the wood. A used S.D. Hot Stack for both the bridge and middle, $75 and $125 respectively, and probably $150 for the neck pickup, $120 for the controls, $30 off new, about $100 for the tuners, $50 for a pickguard, probably $100 for all the remaining little stuff, adds up to another $750 making the total $1785. I haven't decided on a bridge yet, if I get a 6 saddle Fender, it's $22. If I go three saddle, Music City Groove Master is all I will use now, they are that good, $56 saddles and bridge. So, $1,841 for the lot. If you were building your guitar today, it would be $450 for just the neck, tuners, and pickups. And the tuners are on sale right now. I have a 2020 Broadcaster. It was $2,000. Today, an American Vintage II 1951 Telecaster, the same guitar with a different headstock decal, is $2450. Add a pickup, a knob, and a bender, and you have the Brent Mason at $3050. I own a Squier Jazzmaster XII, $471 list, the hardware, especially the tuners were junk. Notice I used past tense. I also recently purchased a G&L Tribute Comanche. A blem, 25% off with another 25% off because of a sale. Eight hundred dollar list for $461. It's a lovely guitar and the hardware is not junk.


Absolutely! And, as I previously stated, I wanted this particular neck. This is the only neck I know of with this profile. The guitar is a faithful reproduction of a 1967 Telecaster, at least as far as the body and neck go. When Fender presented Brent with the first neck prototypes, he wasn't pleased, and they reprofiled the neck until Brent was happy. He says it feels just like his neck. Of course, I could have paid $4,000 for an actual 1967 neck.

I wasn't aware that prices of good parts had gone up that much.

 

[FlarbNarb]

That's a lot of money for parts. My Jazzy was under $800.00 WITH a light weight swamp ash body by guitar mill, locking open gear tuners from hipshot (they look sweet), custom wiring harness with 50's spec'd pots and caps with the full jazz master control set from Gunstreet, custom spec'd hand wound JM pickups from Bootstrap, Fender spec neck from Allparts with custom shaped back profile (courtesy me) and rolled fingerboard (also me), fret level and polish (also me), 30 + coats of tru-oil on the neck and custom vintage blue semi-transparent finish that lets the grain pop and it plays like a dream. No need to pay a premium for stickers and stamps as it has no added value because of it.

 

[Hodgo88]

You are not dumb. The question was about how you value the guitar - as a tool, or as a commodity.

The CS guitar is going to have more liquidity and higher resale, no doubt. If you buy today at $2500, I bet it doesn’t depreciate more than a few hundred dollars over the next decade.

You will take a dive on the partscaster - I bet you’d be lucky to get $1500-1700 and that may require parting it out and being patient. Similarly, you’re probably going to take a hit on selling the parts you have - $1500 in, if you’re patient you might only lose $100-150.

That means it would still be less of a hit on the wallet buying and later selling the CS guitar.

But.

If you think your upgrades are worthwhile, and it’s going to be a better tool for your playing - and you never sell it? The partscaster was the right choice.

 

[jdl57]

If you think your upgrades are worthwhile, and it’s going to be a better tool for your playing - and you never sell it? The partscaster was the right choice.

I have only sold one guitar in my life, and I wound up buying an identical replacement years later. I am under no delusions that any non-collector guitar is an investment. As a matter of fact I don't think collectors guitars are particularly good investments either. I do not expect to get my money back from this guitar, I do not expect to get my money back from my Broadcaster. A used Brent Mason sells for about $500 less than new. If I took the same hit on my guitar, do you think I could get a buyer at $1,300? My absolute worst investment is in my Squier Jazzmaster XII. I paid $370 for it, and doubled that price replacing the absolutely atrocious hardware that they put on Squiers. At least on my Squier. So, with $750 or so "invested", I would be lucky to get $200 for it. I do, however love the way it sounds and plays.

Everyone talks about "bonding" with a guitar. I find that my favorite guitars, the ones I have bonded with, are the ones that started out as, or became a pile of parts. Something about choosing or changing things; necks, pickups, bridges, saddles, tuners, dressing frets, crafting the feel and the sound, making it play well, it's all very satisfying. I am very much into sound, what everyone calls tone. I have four Telecaster shaped objects, and they all sound different. An hour or so ago, I had my #1 on my lap, and I realized that the new one has it's work cut out for it, if it's going to be top dog. It has a shot.

I started building when my wife bought me a 335 kit guitar, so I bought a cheap Guitar Fetish paulownia body to learn how to paint, and a cheap neck just because. I managed to turn the parts into a playable guitar, and that's when I decided that I needed a paulownia bodied guitar. The guitar itself was horrible, but I liked the way the paulownia vibrated against me when I strummed it. I found a body on guitarmill.com, and a really nice neck with a quarter sawn roasted flame maple fingerboard. It's a Strat style neck on a Telecaster body. I went through about 6 or 7 pickup combinations, decided I could live with a Lollar set when Ron Ellis got back to me. I bought a set of his pickups, have been told I'm an idiot for doing so, I put them in my guitar and have never had a desire to remove them. If you don't count the Guitar Fetish abomination, this was my first build, and it came out beautifully.

I like guitars, and I like quality guitars. I want a guitar to feel good in my hands. I don't get this from budget instruments. I would say I was lucky to have a good paying career, but I worked my butt off at low pay for many years to get there. I can afford them. I was a pilot with United Airlines for 33 years. I also have a Rolex. It keeps mediocre time, and it breaks every 5 years or so requiring an expensive rebuild. It's a stainless steel, manual wind Oysterdate, and its 58 years old. The trick is, I get pleasure from looking at it to check the time. Same thing.

 

[Sax-son]

Personal opinion? Don't invest any more than $1000.00 in a partscaster. Why? Because you will never get your money back from them. Trust me I know.

 

[jdl57]

Personal opinion? Don't invest any more than $1000.00 in a partscaster. Why? Because you will never get your money back from them. Trust me I know.

I never claimed that this was logical or smart. I was over your $1,000 mark with just the neck and body. This started out as a search for a 7.25" radius Tele neck. It's not something I set out to do, the opportunity just presented itself. I am not necessarily a fan of Brent Mason, but I do admire his playing, and I thought the guitar itself was wholly unattractive. Although it's not complete--a mini humbucker from Sunday Handwound is on order, and I am using a cheap Amazon sourced Chinese P90 as a replacement. The range of tones this guitar puts out is incredible, I think the Strat middle pickup is a large contributor. I can select any combination of pickups, including all three. The P90 is a little hot and doesn't mesh well with the other two, although it does sound nice. And I love the neck, which was the whole point to begin with.

As it currently stands, if I could only keep one guitar, it would be this one. That's because of the range of tones it has, this was Brent's intention since at the time he could only afford one guitar, and the way it plays. Did I mention I really like this neck? So what I have is a guitar, that Fender sells for $3,050, less the bender--which would only be a novelty to me, and the total cost will be about $1,800. Will I make my money back if I sell it? Of course not. I knew that coming in, but it's like a stock that's not doing well, you haven't lost any money until you sell. (Or the company goes bankrupt, that's happened to me twice now.)

P.S. The color is starting to grow on me.

 

[8bit]

2) If one builds a guitar using all Fender parts, can it still be called a Fender? Was Clapton's Blackie a Fender or a partscaster?

That’s an interesting question. Imo there would be nothing ethically wrong with calling it a Fender, considering all the parts are Fender. Of course assuming you aren’t trying to pass it off as a specific model or something.

I mean, people mod the heck out of Fenders anyway (and often times for the better). So at what point does a Fender cease to be a Fender? If I have a Fender Strat and I swap the neck with a Fender replacement is it still a Fender? If I change the tuners/bridge/etc to aftermarket is it still a Fender? How many, and which, parts can you swap out before it’s the equivalent of something you just pieced together anyway?

I guess to me all of the above would still be “Fenders”. For me the thing is just being open and honest about what it is if you ever go to sell it.

 

[getbent]

I think rabbit holes are fun. I would have shaved the pocket.
I wouldn't sweat the money, you have fun with it and that is worth it.

The music business is only profitable for a very few people. the rest of us spend more than we make. I wouldn't sweat that either.

I'll bet the guitar is great!

 

[jdl57]

I think rabbit holes are fun. I would have shaved the pocket.

The problem was that the body is paulownia, and I would worry about structural integrity. Plus, if I shaved the pocket, I would have had to shim it to put the original neck back on. That's like going down a rabbit hole full of spiderwebs. That guitar is my #1, at least for now, and I didn't want to risk screwing it up.

 

[jdl57]

While not yet finished, the guitar is in it's final form, and it looks like this:



The control plate is from Philadelphia Luthier, and it has a modified volume control position so you can actually get your finger in there to switch out of the bridge position. I kept gold for the control knobs, and I kind of like it. The bridge is Kluson with brass saddles, and the neck pickup is a placeholder--a Guitar Madness Firebird that I got for $20 off ebay. My real neck pickup is probably 2 months away. Tuners, of course, are Sperzel locking. While the tuners are chrome, everything else is nickel. Strap buttons will be Dunlop, and are not installed yet. I'm still having issues with pickup volume balance, and while I thought the Firebird would fix it somewhat, it still overpowers the other two. It is 6.5k with alnico 5 bar magnets and my mini humbucker, coming from Sunday Handwound, is 6.7k with alnico 2 magnets. I'm hoping it's a bit tamer. So, what I have in essence, is a $3,200 Brent Mason, minus the case, bender, and C.O.A, for about $1,900 invested. I'm ok with that, and I love playing this thing, but it still hasn't surpassed my #1, which actually cost more.