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Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Red Planet, Mar 5, 2006.
From personal experience in the business... laptops and VCRs are NOT all made by the same damn "three Chinese companies"... granted semiconductor manufacturers are less in numbers than say, Fast Food chains, but it aint like you're saying.
The paranoia level in us American consumers is funny, but I have to admit, Tubes are often overly relabelled (much like Epiphone and Samick really are the same product from the same factory).
Still, I'd argue that today there are more discerning tube consumers, therefore quality becomes much more prominent in the mix then, say, the early days where folks wanted tubes that could last 100 years and a few sticks of dynamite...
TVs and electronics in general no longer require tubes as they did in the early days, so quantity starts creeping into the picture as well.
As long as there are a mass of people using tube amps, there will be companies that make tubes for them... this is basic capitalism.
Either way, there are enough sources of different brands of tubes (not relabelled) to keep us happy enough. Calm down and have a few drinks.
No offence Redplanet, but your rant seems to favour one bunch of marketeers over another for no apparent reason.
Nature abhors a vacuum, manufacturers love a monopoly. Everyone hypes their product. That's free enterprise.
I don't see anyone being overwhelmed by hype about old brands who spends five minutes researching.
If Phillips were not trading on Mullard's rep in the 60's/70's, why keep a defunct brand alive? Phillips were just as much the evil multinationals of their day as New Sensor.
You can exercise your freedom to use any other brand if you hate NS. If you have freedom to say things about them, others have freedom to say they disagree. I don't love NS above all else but their products seem value for money and I can't see the particular evil they represent.
You can't patent tube structures - the patents died long ago. If I wanted to copy Mullard EL34s the only thing I can't use is the trademarked logo.
Please note I have no vested interest in any part of the tube industry except as a consumer.
So put a fork in it; It's done. You have a problem with it, many here don't.
Now, back to the question of who is selling the KT88s? I'll maintain that they are still nothing but the same carrot that has been hung in front of the consumer for the past 5 years. What is the source of these myths? IMO, this sort of internet propogation is worse than relabeling tubes.
I'm the president of Jim Beam country in my house...
I don't care what label is on the tube, as long as it sounds GOOD.
OK, what?! "Mullard Design"... there is barely any "design" left to tubes, a Pentode EL34 is already designed, across any brand! There aint no extra Grids, or mashed potatoe intake valve on em...
SO WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?
Different brand did things slightly different... and with tubes those "slight details" made a BIG DIFFERENCE. Fatter plates, thicker grids, how they attached part "A", etc, etc.
When I go to buy, say, a "Mullard" type tube now... I'm looking for the ones that are the closest copies. Internal structure, materials, etc... I don't care how "evil" the big corporation is that makes em.
EITHER WAY, everyone rails on capitolism as being "evil" or "morally wrong", BUT Mullard, to RCA, to EVERYBODY did their damnedest to market, sell, cut costs, and take over the market world. From prehistory, to today.
These folks are NOT our "friends", no matter what a phone conversation may make anyone feel to the contrary. They are here to make a living, not friends, or to "do the right thing".
Don't get me wrong, I've spent a lot of time talking to manufacturers, and some of them are real great people, but Tube makers are not "morally responsible" to us! IF THEY MAKE CRAP, THE MARKET WILL NOT BARE THEM. We just won't buy.
Nice job :?
Sorry. I seem to have stirred the pot a little and couldnt figure out how to delete the thread so a deleted my part of it. I'm gonna have to be done with this one. I'll catch you on the next one.
Tim, call Richardson.
Yo RP, sup? Someone slap your wrist over something you posted?
I have no problems buying tubes labeled Sovtek or EH. You know what you're getting. OTOH, there is something that bugs me about buying Russian Reflektor or Saratov tubes that bear the Mullard or Tungsol label. Ditto with Chinese made Bugle Boys. IMO, that is misleading marketing. Their deal with buying the Svetlana name is troublesome as well. I get the impression that Matthews may be a cut throat opportunist.
Ruby and GT are a different matter. There never was a classic US or Euro tube manufacturer named "Ruby Tubes". Everybody with half a brain knows they are simply a remarketer of current production products. Their main supplier is China, but they also remarket JJ, Ei and Russian stuff as well. They do a good job of testing, screening and matching, and provide a good warranty. Kudos to McNeill.
With GT it gets a bit murky. I get the impression that for a long time, they were trying to leave people with the impression that they made all their own stuff. For the longest time they were very secretive about the true origins of their stuff. The internet kind of blew the lid off that kind of misleading marketing, as GT's real operations became more and more exposed and public knowkedge. (Still there seem to be a lot of uninformed people (EffDeePee types) who think GT makes tubes, sheesh.) GT is also an opportunist operation and wannabe monopolist. I have it from a very reliable source that they tried to get the JJ 6V6S as a GT exclusive, and Pittman went through the roof when he was turned down. They have the Saratov KT66 as an exclusive, if indeed they paid for 100% of the development, then I guess that's fair. Their special version of the JJ E34L is also exclusive, but it's in reality no better than the real one sold under the JJ label by Bob et al, for a lot less money. Their "made in USA" on the GE and Mullard copies is misleading. Yes, they are partially made in the USA, but not 100%. Final assembly, processing, evacuation and pinch-off, test and aging are all done in China, but they try to hide that. They're still trying to play the hype and BS super mystery mojo game, and that crap just doesn't fly any more. (Unless you're an EffDeePee type.) These new tubes may indeed be great and it's good that they are available on the market (at a rather steep price, so typical of GT), but I really think people need to understand what it is and what it is NOT, that they're actually buying and paying for.
IMO, YMMV, etc.
No one slapped my wrist I just thought this thing was fixin to fly out of control.
Anyway its no secret how I feel and its gonna stay that way. I agree 100 percent with you about GT.
To me its like this -- there are many folks doing what I consider some unsavery stuff concerning what they are and arent producing and letting the consumers make leaps of imagination while profitting from this. This should be against the law.
If I have anything to do with it I'm gonna shout it from the roof tops and I'm gonna ask my fellow man to support the folks that are not doing any of this Hocuspocus Mumbojumbo.
New Sensor Ala/ Sovtek, EH,Tungsol, Mullard, Gold Lion, Svetlana, and anything else they try to Market me is not gonna get another dime of my money. This goes for GT as well.
To me its like AP and MM are comparing marketing notes. They are doing the same thing and they are not gonna get any of my hard earned money.
There you are. As Tim noted, caveat emptor and let the market speak. Your voice will be heard through your expenditures of dollars.
See, that's one of the things about Internet discussion boards – you can't control what anyone else contributes. You're free to say what you want, they're free to express THEIR opinion(s).
Of course, now that you've gone back and removed all your posts, a lot of the thread doesn't make much sense anymore, because much of it was in response to things you wrote, so now it's all out of context. :-|
The "edit" feature can be a useful tool, especially when/if we post something we might later regret for some reason – but going back and deleting everything you wrote really isn't helpful. :-| All IMO, of course. – CS