Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Red Planet, Mar 5, 2006.
who? what? where?
I'm not familiar with that company. What kinds of products do they make and/or sell? Can you provide some links to places online that have some of the products, as examples?
Re: who? what? where?
He's referring to Russian-made vacuum tubes.
deja vu: same tube, different name, different price
To be honest, I'm just glad we can still get vacuum tubes at all. So many of the factories have been shut and i believe reflektor is under fire to close or be taken over by a local concern which could spell quasi disaster for tubes. Could you describe why you are so angry at the rebranding and repackaging of the same good?
There are many instances of rebranding that no one seems to notice or mind--> VCR's are made in 3 places.. two are distinct and probably 75% of the world uses the same basic VCR but they have a million names and enclosures. Most of the chinese production of laptop computers happens in one main factory where they make lenovo, apple, hp etc... and those are compound products not single commodity.
For me, it doesn't matter about the rebranding. It does require some research so that you don't get sucked into the marketing hype... but, it is important to respect distinctions and determine if they are important to you. For example, one boutique company may have "matched sets" that they have qualified and because they have done the extra handling they charge for that. Some of us will want that extra help, some won't. It can end up being the differences between camaro and firebird... or GMC and Chevy Suburbans. Granted, that is not a perfect comparison... but we have all watched the generic drug business grow and change and as consumers we all have acquired opinions about what the value of something is. It would be great if there were lots of manufacturers of tubes, but, their apparent impact on the environment (and believe me if you travel to China or eastern Europe you can see the massive devastation that happens without anyone caring about the environment) is significant enough that the production of tubes is problematic even though they continue to be very popular (although not as popular as when we had tube televisions and radio--> remember when the drugstore had tube testers in the store!?)
I can understand part of your anger, but I'm not sure I have the whole story from your post...
Re: Is it me or does anyone else feel this way?
Quite American, isn't it!?
Not unlike different string brands being wound by the same factory. For example.
There are other tube factories, I think, if Reflektor is under your skin that much. Try JJ/Tesla's. Click on the link.....
It is no different than Eminence making most of the speakers for other brands, or Samick building the vast majority of guitars.
There is no conspiracy or fraud going on. Those companies just do the physical manufacturing of the products to the specs of the brand names.
This has been going on in the tube industry for a very long time. I have Sylvanias 6L6GCs labeled RCA, GE, Groove Tube, Peavey, Fender and Mesa. I have Tungsol 6550s labeled everything you can imagine (they were the only 6550 for about 15 years). Electronics companies had to have repair parts, and if they couldn't supply their own they would just source them and put their name on them.
I'm not gonna get into country of orgin stuff
But it all seems like a way that is just gonna drive the cost
of buying or maintaining a tube amp right through the roof.
One more thing that makes me wish I had all the stuff I did
when I was younger.
Must'a burned half a mil's worth of baseball cards thru my
bicycle spokes, Had a couple of tube amps, and sold my 'ol
iron head sporty.
Now days, I can only dream of a tube rig and ride a 1999
Live and learn
Rebadged the same tube? Look again. Sovtek 5881s (not really a 5881) are different to WXT+, are different to EH 6L6s. Not just logos, but internal structure.
Same with the 12AX7s, Sovtek put out whitebox 12AX7WAs, their own boxed 12AX7WBs, 12AX7WXTs, 12AX7LPS, and also makes EH 12AX7s. All these are different, plate lengths, spacers, getters. If you swap them, they also sound different in amps.
As Tim says, this has always happened. Phillips owned Mullard from the late 50's - I have the same 12AX7 branded, Mullard Australia and Phillips Australia. Phillips in England and the Commonwealth appear to have been sold as Mullards for market recognition, long after Mullard made 12AX7s. I have seen Phillips Miniwatt 6CA7s which I think are Mullard EL34s. Maybe they never even did make their own example of some tubes.
First off, I'm glad that Reflektor (New Sensor Corp.) is making tubes at all! Ditto for the other Russian factories, the Chinese, the Slovaks and the Serbs. New production tubes today are a LOT better than they were 10-15 years ago. And the selection of types continues to expand. This is a good thing!!!!
With that said, I do think it is a fair bit misleading that New Sensor (and others as well) have bought the rights to use the classic names of yesteryear. These current production tubes are not the same as the originals bearing the same names, nowhere close. I believe they are in some regard trying to mislead the ignorant, and use the fancy names to justify higher prices. IMO that is bogus BS. IMO, New Sensor and Richardson are the biggest offenders when it comes to this. They have the names Mullard, Amperex, TungSol, etc. New Sensor has their own "ElectroHarmonix" brand name, IMO they should just sell everything under that name, to be more "honest" with what it really is they're selling.
Just IMO, YMMV, etc....
#1 Tubes have historically been relabeled
#2 Tubes are good. I'm happy that tubes are still being made. To quote the Beatles, "getting better all the time"
What do you base you information on? Are you just going by how the tube looks, or have you performed some other type of testing? Have you done any metalurgy testing?
You're seem to be starting a Crusade against the tube manufacturers, what's your agenda?
Redman! Not offended in the least. your last post explained it very well... I guess the old caveat emptor thing goes for tubes too.. my bro works in the sporting goods industry and it is unbelievable how many names/brands get bought and used up... to effectively exploit the shopper who buys based on name recognition.
It strikes me as a new user to this forum that the folks who spend a little time here are combatting that type of marketing/sales.... which is a good thing. I have this fantasy that it used to be different... maybe when you could go to downtown fullerton and go hang out with Leo and George and watch your stuff get made... but it aint that way... unless you can afford to buy locally and spend the extra to support local folk. Sadly, tubes is one thing that is not coming back to the states...ever.
Heck, y'all need to calm down. Hey, I have an idea, why don't you come see my band...
Isn't that the same thing Fender and Gibson have been doing for several years now?
The resurrection of the names "Mullard" and "Tung Sol" for tubes that have nothing to do with those great products of the past is pretty sad.
How do you feel about the same car being sold as a Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, or Buick?