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A New Pickup Winder Scratch Build!

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by Barncaster, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. Barncaster

    Barncaster Doctor of Teleocity

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    Wax potting the pup will help the situation. Don't clown wig it. It will probably give you years of twangy service.
     
  2. I_build_my_own

    I_build_my_own Friend of Leo's

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    That is a no issue. If there is really a few rounds that shortcut to the pole magnets, so what. 10 or 20 less rounds of 5000 or 6000 or 7000 rounds is not making a dent. Just make sure the overall wiring connects that end to ground and not the hot side of the output jack. You wouldn't want it buzzing when you touch the mag poles with the finger tips while playing.
     
  3. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I thought only people with fat clumsy fingers like me did that! :lol:
     
  4. I_build_my_own

    I_build_my_own Friend of Leo's

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    Rich, nope I don't let you talk me into a confession!!!
     
  5. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    No,no Helmut, I can speak only for myself. However, if that makes you uncomfortable . . . :D
     
  6. supersonicobr

    supersonicobr TDPRI Member

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    I think Jim (jimdkc) and Rick both have it right, guess the poly didn't hold up somewhere along the first few (dozen?) turns, thence the shorts. Will give this wrap a try, but the next one up will get double lacquer-dipped before winding, for sure.

    I'm happy to report I seem to have got the tension game OK, no splayed flatwork on this one! Smaller, weaker plastic clamp and "harder" (less fluffy) felt pads, nicely squeezing the polepieces into the flatwork using a bench vise, this has to have been my most solid wrap thus far.

    When you lot wrap your bobbins in either string or tape, do you add any tension? I mean do you use the string or tape to try to squeeze the windings in a little further against the bobbin or poles? I did that on this 14K one (don't worry, this wasn't the reason why I seem to have broken the poly - I got the shorts to the coil start as soon as I took it off the winder) and also another squeeze while the wax mix was cooling after potting, seems as though the long sides of the coil have quite a bit of "give" inwards even though they aren't "rounded" as if loose... is that typical for hand winding?
     
  7. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    No, string or tape is used only to cover and protect the coil. Snug, not squeezing the coil.


    A "flabby" coil as you describe is usually because of low tension while winding. It's not necessarily a problem unless it prevents putting on enough turns to get the coil you want. You'll want to pot a loose coil, too, to avoid micro phonic feedback.
     
  8. Barncaster

    Barncaster Doctor of Teleocity

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    Super,
    Lacquering bobbins prior to winding was Leo's very cheap attempt at applying a dielectric layer to the magnets. Just use one wrap of vinyl electrical tape and you are totally good. I cut mine to height with a straight edge on a clean surface.
    Rob
     
  9. Barncaster

    Barncaster Doctor of Teleocity

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    Hey Super,
    Concerning coil firmness, you will have a firmer coil if you attempt to wind very linearly. This tends to pack the bobbin very efficiently and is particularly useful when trying to get as much wire onto a bobbin as possible.

    A coil will be less firm if scatter winding is done as you are introducing a lot of voids into the coil by applying the wire constantly in a slightly off perpendicular manner in relation to the winder axis.

    Given equivalent lengths of wire, equivalently-sized bobbins and equivalent applied wire tension, the linearly wound bobbin will have a narrower coil as the bobbin is more efficiently packed.

    The scatter-wound coil will be slightly wider due to all of the voids introduced by the scattering. This results in the coil being exposed to slightly longer lengths of the strings. The longer vibrating string lengths have more variation in their vibration patterns resulting in a slightly more complex tone. And there are a lot more sonic variables too. ;-) Have fun!
    Rob
     
  10. Muzikp

    Muzikp Friend of Leo's

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    Rob have you experimented with the hum cancelling dummy coils? I was just watching a demo vid on the Epiphone blues hawk. Seems like a great idea with P90's, any idea how it affects tone?
     
  11. DrASATele

    DrASATele Poster Extraordinaire

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    I'll 2nd that question as I have a set that might be helpful with ;)
    Thanks in advance Dr. Barncaster!
     
  12. whodatpat

    whodatpat Friend of Leo's

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    Rob,
    For a warm tele neck wind, what can I do? I have 42 and 44 guage but no 43. I am thinking 8000 winds of 42. I am trying Alnco V in EAD and 2 in DGe position to brighten the low strings and warm up the high strings.
     
  13. Barncaster

    Barncaster Doctor of Teleocity

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    Boy, I'm late on this one. I have not experimented with dummy coils. I have done stacked P90s with long magnets and a smaller, lower noise canceling coil. One issue with this configuration is you lose the pole screws. On one I made, I recessed the poles and cut the heads off the pole screw and popped them on. No adjustability but a quiet, standard looking P90! The F90 is more popular with Firebird guts in a P90 housing with dummy pole screws. A great pup. ImageUploadedByTDPRI1434216743.148887.jpg

    While doing some research recently I discovered the original mid to late 40s P90s were very simple pole and flatwork pups. So I guess poled P90s have street cred!
    ImageUploadedByTDPRI1434216720.504526.jpg
    Rob
     
  14. Barncaster

    Barncaster Doctor of Teleocity

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    Hey Pat,
    Great to hear from you. There are several ways to warm up a pup. Usually this is an issue with bridge pups. One of the ways I address this issue generally is with setting gauss levels to specific values. Given that Alnico V rods saturate in the 1600 gauss region and Alnico II in the 800 gauss region, to make an AV/II combination really work, you need to be able to dictate individual pole gauss levels.

    The reason is that what you are really after is the innate magnet tonal qualities of clear, punchy and detailed AV and warm and soulful AII. If you just loaded the bobbin with the hybrid AV/II array and gang charged it , you'd probably end up with E, A, D having noticeable higher and shrill output compared to G, B, E. This has to do with the previously mentioned innate saturation levels of the magnet formulations.

    So for a warm neck pup with a very clear and detailed lower end, individually charge the mags to approximately the 500-600 gauss region each. Yes, this requires a gauss meter. In the absence of a gauss meter, I have found that a 3/4" pieces of wood acting as spacers between my big Neo bars in the bench vise will do the trick as well.

    This spacer thickness value may need to be decreased with smaller or lower gauss neos. Mine are 3"x .5"x.5" with a gauss level of about 3600. With the spacer method, the rods have to be left in place in the charging station for say 3 or so minutes each and it is important to use the same spot and time duration for each.

    Keep them separated after charging, then install ensuring polarity integrity is maintained. Insulate the magnets with a piece of vinyl electrical tape to establish a bulletproof dielectric layer. Wind with min build 42 AWG with 50 winds of scatter every 500 linear and load the bobbin as far as it will go. 42AWG will give you more of a Strat neck tone, 43AWG more of a traditional Tele. Wax pot and enjoy. Also, for more output, standard Tele neck magnets are usually in the .650" length region. You can go taller to store bought .710" or so to increase winding land real estate as desired. The increased resistance that comes with the increased winds will comparatively warm things up as well. I hope this helps. :)
    Rob
     
  15. DrASATele

    DrASATele Poster Extraordinaire

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    Calling the master....
    I wonder good sir what you make of this:

    It's a heavily modded original Aria Diamond 1532. Pups have been replaced with this humbucker, no lower magnet to speak of. It feels like the slugs are magnets as that part with the winding is stuck to my table saw. Thoughts on the type of humbucker this is? I'm not sure it's worth the rebuild but some insight if you have any would be much appreciated.

    Thanks!
     

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  16. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Gotta love a git-fiddle named "Roadsteamer", with stars and moons strategically placed. . .

    Oh, wait a minute, we're not talking about the kind of road steamer that a horse leaves on the trail on chilly mornings, are we? :eek:
     
  17. Barncaster

    Barncaster Doctor of Teleocity

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    Roadsteamer......LOL! This is killing me. You have to promise never to paint over that. Anyway, the seperate hookup leads under the baseplate remind me of some of the DeArmond humbucker offerings as well as Fender Wide Range humbuckers. Humbuckers built in the 12 rod magnet pole configuration can do some sonically amazing things, especially if you get the gauss values right. Is it dead? I'd love to get measurements off of it. ;-)
    Rob
     
  18. DrASATele

    DrASATele Poster Extraordinaire

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    Nice. I knew you'd have some insight.
    I think it is dead, looks like some of the coil is damaged. It almost fell out of the guitar if not for the strings.
    Looks like I need to build a neck for this over the winter and possibly re-fin as I believe this Jag copy was sunburst at one point before it was hacked up.
    PM me if you'd like me to send it to you for an exam. I won't need it for a while. I'm going to ask the owner what direction he wants to go with the guitar since the original make up had 2 pups.
     
  19. anyone

    anyone Tele-Holic

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    Hey Rob!
    I finally finished the fiddle that the foil-type pups found a home in.
    WOW! I love these pups.
    Here's a bit of noodling running through clean, od, and fuzz.
    Hope you're doing well, Brother.
     
  20. Barncaster

    Barncaster Doctor of Teleocity

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    :)
    It's what happens when a Gibson style humbucker snuggles up with a DeArmond Goldfoil.
     
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