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A new deluxe

Discussion in 'Shock Brother's DIY Amps' started by John How, Dec 11, 2018.

  1. John How

    John How Tele-Meister

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    I have a homebuilt 5e3 from a few years ago that I never seemed to gel with...Now I’m playing with a few guys and am thinking of an amp I can leave at the rehearsal room...I have my Princeton 6g2 that I used and it was fine but it’s a head and cabinet arrangement...what I’m thinking is to build a small combo to be used mainly as a pedal platform...
    I’m wondering if I could dismantle my 5e3 and bring it back as a blackface non reverb deluxe...That should give me ample power and plenty of clean headroom to rip up with pedals for rehearsal...
    Also thinking of leaving out the normal channel and just building the trem channel...Any issue with doing that?
     
  2. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    In your position, I would assess the speaker in that 5E3 build. A speaker change can make more difference than the few watts difference between a non-verb BF Deluxe and the tweed 5E3.
    But...if you really don’t like what a 5E3 does versus a BF preamp, then I suppose your proposition is a ciable option. I might suggest either no trem or the bias vary from the 6G2. That opto-isolator circuit is a gain sucker. Of course, you could use a switching pot to kill that bug trem while maintaining the ability to have it on tap. Take a look at the 6G3 circuit...bias vary trem. You might go that way....bigger capacitance in the first stage and maybe a GZ34 rectifier for a bigger, tighter sound. After all....you want a pedal platform.
     
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  3. John How

    John How Tele-Meister

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    I was initially looking at the 6g3 but after watching a few vid’s(prolly not the best for judging tone), they didn’t seem to have much more headroom than my 6g2...and I kinda wanted to try the scooped bf thing...
     
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  4. rogb

    rogb Tele-Afflicted

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    You can add some clean to the 5E3 with a Robrob NFB switch. Adds some negative feedback just like a blackface. Might be enough to save doing a full rebuild. I have a 12AX7 in V1 of mine and it still stays clean.
    A speaker I like on mine is the Celestion Neo Creamback, has some nice character and way loads of power handling.
    https://robrobinette.com/5e3_Modifications.htm#Switched_Negative_Feedback
     
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  5. David Barnett

    David Barnett Doctor of Teleocity

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    If it's the scooped thing you're looking for, there are some small Gibson and Epiphone amps that had a "bridged T" suckout filter. I can't remember the models right now, but some of them had 6AQ5 outputs. Stealing that filter and sticking it in a Deluxe would give a nice mid suck.

    Here's an example:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
  6. Nickfl

    Nickfl Friend of Leo's

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    I'd try NFB, smaller coupling caps, and smaller cathode bypass caps (or even remove the v2a bypass) before I would rebuild it as something else. I never bonded with my 5e3 build and ended up doing a modified version of Robrob's lead channel plus some of the above and I like it a lot better now.
     
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  7. robrob

    robrob Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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  8. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

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    You have three holes for controls on your 5E3, enough for volume bass and treble. Put a tone stack in place of the VVT controls. Put the resistor and caps on a little perf board and wire it up to the pots. Stick it after the first stage, leave the other stage disconnected for the time being. If you need a little more gain, stick the extra triode in as a cathode follower between the first stage and the tone stack. Not a big difference but might be enough. Almost no rewiring of the 5E3 board. If not stick it after the tone stack and keep the gain down into the next stage. Then I would try adding some NFB.
     
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  9. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I prefer a pot for the adjustment of the NFB loop resistance rather than having two or three static resistances. Fine adjustment can find those more precise points where things get righteous.
     
  10. John How

    John How Tele-Meister

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    Maybe it’s my deteriorating hearing but I can never hear the difference between negative feedback and not...Or maybe I have it wired wrong...don’t think so...
    Well thanks for all the input but I being fond of building amps, have already parted out my 5e3 in favor of the brown deluxe which I will be starting soon...gotta have that trem now that I’ve experienced it...
    I have a pair of Speakers label WeberVST P10R...I don’t see them in the current Weber listing so I’m not really sure what they are but they are 16ohm so the pair should be a fit for my 8ohm OT...
     
  11. rogb

    rogb Tele-Afflicted

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    There is a massive difference! Way less hisssss and grind. More hi-fi and headroom.A lot less character, if you will, but perfect as a pedal platform. Makes it a truly versatile amp. Are you sure it is wired correctly and you have the correct value components in place?
     
  12. robrob

    robrob Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    John, if you inject NFB onto a standard bypassed cathode the NFB signal will pass through the bypass cap to ground leading to no difference between NFB and no NFB.
     
  13. John How

    John How Tele-Meister

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    In both of the amps I’ve used negative feedback on it was back to the second stage of the amp(12ax7) no bypass cap...injust don’t hear anything different...I can definitely hear the 1st stage bypass cap being switched in and out, but the negative feedback doesn’t seem to change anything...I’ve tried it on both my 5f2a and the 6g2...The feedback has to be from the tip of the speaker jack right?
     
  14. robrob

    robrob Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Yes. What value NFB resistor did you use?
     
  15. D'tar

    D'tar Friend of Leo's

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    John, are you injecting it into the cathode, above the resistor?

    upload_2018-12-13_15-0-0.png
     
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  16. King Fan

    King Fan Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Yep, something's wrong with this picture.

    The NFB lift on my 6g2 is maybe a *little* bit subtle, but even a small cut on the 5f2a is obvious
     
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  17. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    The strenghth of the negative feedback loop signal is determined by the two resistance values in play there. With a 1.5K tail, one might want somewhere between what....WAG...maybe 6.8K or a bit less as a minimum resistance for that resistor on the NFB tap. I would use at least a 30-50K pot. If I did not want to remove that much cancellation, put in a 18k resistor on a switch to block that much cancellation signal with almost 25K of resistance there. Just taking a stab at
    that....it would be noticeable. Bigger, richer, more harmonic content....or go back to what will be ime and to my ear a more sterile amp...which can be a good thing. A pot to adjust let’s one sweep all along that change in signal content....I like the versatility.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  18. John How

    John How Tele-Meister

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    This is in my tweed single ended Princeton...It’s a 22k resistor...from the tip of the speaker jack to a switch and to the 22k resistor that is then connected to the junction of that 1.5k cathode resistor and the cathode...(pin 8 of V1)
     
  19. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity

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    It may fit in that 5E3 space. In some ways it's even simpler than the 5E3. Ignore the pot/tone scheme on this:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. John How

    John How Tele-Meister

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    So when this amp was designed...maybe they used a 4ohm speaker and OT? This is an 8 ohm speaker and OT...mayhaps I need a different feedback resistance? On my first amp, the vibrochamp, I tried a larger pot in series with a smaller resistor and same deal, I could hear no difference in the sound by moving that pot or even disconnecting the loop altogether...that’s why I suggested it might be too subtle for these old ears to detect...I can definitely hear the change in drive and grit when I switch in the 1st stage cathode bypass...
     
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