A little clay?

peteb

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Serious question. Where did you get the moon dust? Or is that just a code word for something else?

actually, it is more like asteroid dust. Does that help?
There was a lot of clay were I grew up, the bane of gardeners I heard.

My enterprising friend and I when we were 14y/o dug out a few large chunks of the blueish stuff from behind the sports field and used it to make moulds for lead fishing weights.
We'd 'borrow' some lead flashing from various roofs, melt it down over a gas burner and pour it into these baked clay moulds, and drop a swivel in.
A whole lot of filing later, we were selling them by the dozen.
I wonder if that's what lit the entrepreneurial fire for my friend, he now owns Europe's largest fishing retail space.
thanks kandeskyesque,

that is a great story.

thanks for sharing.


I got started on the suspension idea when the question comes up, where is clay? They say because of suspension, look in the bottom of a dry lake bed.

(think Texas and the book and movie holes)

my idea is that if you don’t see the clay, go down. The bottom of a cliff would be a great place to find clay. The idea is that the smaller particles sink.

When we (me, wife, and young son) were camping on Mt Rainier many years back, I filled a glass from the river that ran by the campsite to show my son how the silt would precipitate from the water if it was let alone for a while.

thanks for sharing edvard. I had the same experience.

the White River? Silver Springs camp ground?


on my suspension test, the pure clay settled quickly before samples with organic material. Sand is settling quickly. The sample that stays suspended is the shallow clay with organic (red) constuitants.
 
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MarkieMark

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Wait.
Are we allowed to discuss flocculation here? :oops:

All seriousness aside. I grew up in a red clay district. Below a far too shallow layer of top soil was always solid red clay.
Then I moved to an area near one of the largest bay/estuaries on the east USA coast.
Sand. Loamy sand. Then alternating colors of white and grey clay.
Now I am back in red clay land. But with more roots, and baking potato sized stones.

I dig in the ground too much I guess.

Always of interest. The import of Georgia red clay for dirt track raceways.
Properly prepared, it gets so hard tires squeal and the surface turns black from rubber deposits.
Perfect for that.

Gardening/landscaping?
Not so much...
 

schmee

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Lots of clay up here in the PNW. usually starts about 3 ft down or further.
I had a well drilled 15 years ago that ended in a clay pocket. It's so fine it clogs two 10" filters in a half hour or less of pumping. It stays suspended in the water a long time. I had to abandon that well.
I had a septic put in that hit clay 2.5 feet down and had to be a special complicated system.
 

edvard

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...
thanks for sharing edvard. I had the same experience.

the White River? Silver Springs camp ground?

Sunrise Point right next to the Nisqually river on the south side. The river wiped it off the map in the flood of 2006.
Too bad, it was our favorite camp spot. The river being rather close to the camp made for some pleasant white noise that helped you sleep and not notice the snapping of twigs every now and then... :D
 

dogmeat

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speaking of flocculation.... parts of my home town are built on glacial clays. but, at the time of deposition 10,000 years ago, the water was brackish, as in sea salt. as I remember (Geo classes 35 years ago, part a minor attached to my BST degree) due to the salt, an additional ionic bond was formed as the particles consolidated. over the centuries, ground water percolated through the (relatively impermeable) clay layers breaking that (rather weak) bond. this made the clay layers progressively weaker over time. the nut of all this is when we had the big quake in '64 (9.2 Richter) the clay liquified, sweeping the Turnagain housing district into the bay. the salts aid in consolidation, and add a strength and stability factor as long as that ionic bond exists
 

Weazel

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It took 28 posts....
Ali.jpg
 

peteb

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Lots of clay up here in the PNW. usually starts about 3 ft down or further.
I had a well drilled 15 years ago that ended in a clay pocket. It's so fine it clogs two 10" filters in a half hour or less of pumping. It stays suspended in the water a long time. I had to abandon that well.
I had a septic put in that hit clay 2.5 feet down and had to be a special complicated system.
Thanks for sharing this.

that sounds similar to what I am investigating.

in the area, there is a clay cap exposed by a stream, and local word is that the clay cap is every where in the neighborhood. I starting noticing many signs of an elevated water table. my dad offered the term perched water table, which is over rock or clay.
Sunrise Point right next to the Nisqually river on the south side. The river wiped it off the map in the flood of 2006.
That was some serious rain. You mean sunshine point. Sunrise is on the other side, above the white river camp ground. I love the park.

I'm genuinely curious,
This particular yard dirt was used in asteroid / crater making experiments. An asteroid, otherwise known as a minor moon, is rock material orbiting the earth.
 

schmee

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Thanks for sharing this.

that sounds similar to what I am investigating.

in the area, there is a clay cap exposed by a stream, and local word is that the clay cap is every where in the neighborhood. I starting noticing many signs of an elevated water table. my dad offered the term perched water table, which is over rock or clay.
Yeah, the well I mentioned went down 200 ft, then it hit a boulder or rock layer. They drilled through the rock and found water under it, but could go no further as they cant drive the casing through the rock. Unfortunately, the water below the rock was a clay pocket. Smelled slightly sulphurous too.
 

peteb

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Yeah, the well I mentioned went down 200 ft, then it hit a boulder or rock layer. They drilled through the rock and found water under it, but could go no further as they cant drive the casing through the rock. Unfortunately, the water below the rock was a clay pocket. Smelled slightly sulphurous too.

this is really interesting Schmee.


what I really want to know is the relationship between the aquifer and the water table.


the aquifer and the water table are kind of the same thing.

what I find are artificial water tables above the aquifer.


I see a picture of the Serengeti in Tanzania, which shows an elevated water table.
 

DekeDog

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I've lived in several areas where clay was predominant in the soil. Clay is known as "shrink/swell soil," and that kind of soil plays havoc with house foundations. Ram Jack makes a lot of money shoring up foundations for houses built on clay. Digging in dried clay is impossible, because it contracts and becomes hard as stone. When it gets wet, it expands and becomes very soft. Seems to sustain vegetation pretty well, though, especially if you can mix good soil in while it's wet.

I currently live close to an area that is famous for its potters. There are well over 50 potters concentrated in a small area where the clay is ideal for making pots. Some really beautiful stuff.

IMG_0015.JPG


IMG_0019.JPG


I also spent most of my career formulating coatings and printing inks. We used kaolin clay as filler, opacifiers, flatteners, thickeners, and whiteners, depending on the chemistry and morphology of the clay particles. We had various tricks to keep clay particles suspended in whatever medium we were working.
 
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schmee

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this is really interesting Schmee.
what I really want to know is the relationship between the aquifer and the water table.
the aquifer and the water table are kind of the same thing.
what I find are artificial water tables above the aquifer.

I see a picture of the Serengeti in Tanzania, which shows an elevated water table.
We've been trying to figure out the water table up here. It's pretty weird. There are 16 five acre homesites. It's a hill and the highest home is probably about 200 feet above lake level. All sites have water issues up here. This area would have made a great gravel pit, water drains off the hill very quickly. Unlike the home I had down in the flat where I mentioned the troublesome septic installation.... which was clay at about 2.5 feet down and water would sit in a field for months.
My particular water situation is that the main well provides water December through May usually. 20 years ago it provided water December through July. My home is on a ridge between two creeks/ravines. The top of the ridge is probably 800 feet or so between creeks.
The weird thing is it can be a super rainy/snowy year and it doesn't change when the well provides water much at all. If the water level has anything to do with rain or snow it's evidently a very delayed reaction. My impression is it has nothing to do with a water table, but more aquifers that run through strata, which are at different levels or even angled from horizontal maybe.
My neighbor had the best well up here. This year he's been running out of water and I haven't. This has been changing over the last few years. My well (The top surface that is) is probably 80 feet in elevation above his. I have a hand dug well further down the hill that we both share water from in the summer /fall.
 

peteb

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I currently live close to an area that is famous for its potters. There are well over 50 potters concentrated in a small area where the clay is ideal for making pots. Some really beautiful stuff.

really nice! Thanks for sharing.

do you know why there is a prevalence of quality clay in the area?


We've been trying to figure out the water table up here. It's pretty weird. There are 16 five acre homesites. It's a hill and the highest home is probably about 200 feet above lake level. All sites have water issues up here. This area would have made a great gravel pit, water drains off the hill very quickly. Unlike the home I had down in the flat where I mentioned the troublesome septic installation.... which was clay at about 2.5 feet down and water would sit in a field for months.

thank Schmee. I find the whole process of digging wells for water fascinating. The hill is 200 foot above the surrounding water table or lake level. How deep are the wells?
I dig in the ground too much I guess.

I understand. I like digging too.

I think I am going to get rid of the trampoline and hand dig a well in the area of dead grass. I want to know, in the wet season, is there water to be found five to ten feet below the surface, or not?
 

schmee

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really nice! Thanks for sharing.

do you know why there is a prevalence of quality clay in the area?

thank Schmee. I find the whole process of digging wells for water fascinating. The hill is 200 foot above the surrounding water table or lake level. How deep are the wells?


I understand. I like digging too.

I think I am going to get rid of the trampoline and hand dig a well in the area of dead grass. I want to know, in the wet season, is there water to be found five to ten feet below the surface, or not?
My main well is 109 ft, the water enters at about 85-90 feet though through a casing perforation. So the well is deeper than the actual water aquifer.
The deep well with too much clay in it is 205 feet.
My guess is the clay layer is not flat and is buckled up and down all over, thus it's a barrier to actually establishing a real water table...
 

DekeDog

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really nice! Thanks for sharing.
do you know why there is a prevalence of quality clay in the area?
The area that I am referring to is Seagrove, NC just south of Greensboro. I couldn't tell you specifically where they get their clay (they may even order it from Amazon), but apparently that whole area is rich in "Seagrove Red" clay or "Fire Clay," and they've gotten their clay from that area since the late 19th century. If you draw a line from north of Atlanta, through Charlotte, to Richmond (along Interstate 85), in that piedmont area, there is nothing but clay. That's why the lakes and rivers are red from the iron oxide.
 
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