Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Dr Anatta, Oct 26, 2016.
Both good amps.
As I mentioned above, I DID put in more efficient speakers. And after 400.00 on amp mods, and 200 for the Eminence Cannabis Rex, I still found the sound of the amp to be not what I wanted.
Getting both isn't an option.
Many players have run many different pedals at this type of amp for decades with good results. $400for amp work.....what was done? I take it that the electrolytics are fresh. Does the amp have a bias voltage adjustment circuit now? if not, it needs one. If it does have that circuit, how is the amp biased? That info should be part of the deal, IMHO.
What does this amp NOT do for you...outside of the pedal thing. What does it do that you do not like......Specifically? How do you run the controls...preamp gain(channel volume), MV and tones?
What do these Cannabis Rex speakers do/not do that you dislike?
The amp had a number of CBS things taken out of the circuit, had the bias control made external, so the chassis wouldn't have to be removed in order to bias. And I can't recall what else. I know that the tech told me he practically had to rebuild the circuit. Biasing was done, all tubes were checked, amp was given a clean bill of health. Bill Banks (the tech) is among the best of the techs here in DFW. And I've used him for years, so I know he's honest.
The amp (with stock speakers, which sound better) breaks up unpleasantly at stage volumes. With the CR, that doesn't happen, but it just doesn't sound as good. With the the CR, the amp just sounds sterile, and lifeless. I had a Twin II that I used them in, and it sounded GREAT. It's hard to say what I don't like about them, aside from what I mentioned above. Wish I could be more specific. And I'll have to say them amp just isn't terribly warm sounding, in general, regardless of speakers. It's very bold. It reminds me of Nick Greer's Train Wreck clones - harsh/hard and in your face.
IT sounds as if that amp is NOT working as it could. IME, that amp can be made to sound very good...clean but warm.
Have you seen this??
I think you need to talk to someone like Weber about the right speaker for you in that Pro. That Pro Reverb is everything the Deville dreams of being. The PR is also better built and easier (read:cheaper) to service and maintain. How loud are you playing that an ultralinear ~75W 6L6 amp break up unpleasantly?! I've never been able to make my 75 45W Super Reverb break up on stage.
Fwiw, the Blues/Hot Rod amps do not 'dream' of being anything like a BF/Sf Fender. They are based in the 5F6A world. This is why I said that ime that preamp cannot yield the cleans that the BF/Sf preamp yields. Different animals.
I can't bring myself to spend more money on speakers, sorry just can't even consider it. I crank it up to about 5 or 6 when things start breaking up. It's the CTS speakers, no doubt. If you've read the previous posts, you'll see I've tried the Cannabis Rex speakers, to no avail. I just think I don't like the way this amp is voiced. Why this amp breaks up and you SR doesn't, comes down to the speakers I believe.
I'm not necessarily looking for it to be BF/SF, I just want something that performs well, and sounds good. What is the deal with 5F6A circuits, as opposed to BF/SF?
I'm either going to keep the amp, and forget about all this, which means the amp will sit here and collect dust, as I haven't been using it for quite some time. Or I'll get an amp tech to tweak it to my liking. I hadn't seen the amp you have linked to. I'm unfamiliar with that amp. I'd have all kinds of options if I could sell the PR of mine, but no one seems to want them.
Doc, the 5F6A preamp has two gain stages prior to the tone stack versus the gain/tone stack/gain of the BF/Sf amps. That Bassman topography is the basis for all of those good Marshalls. They heat up earlier in the preamp...before that signal sucking tone stack interferes with things. Leo was ever searching for bigger and cleaner....and that is the direction his amps took during the evolution of things.
IMe, a BF/SF reverb amp at 5 with the tones set at 5 should be clean and lively.. AS one turns the volume up on this type of preamp, the tones need to come down. The story is the same with that TRII you liked....same preamp before the tricks come into play. WIth a Bassman preamp, the tones can be run almost anywhere one wants at any volume level because the changes in the tone stack are not amplified through as many gain stages as in the BF/Sf amps. boogie explained all of this in their MK series manuals...because those amps are based on the BF AB763 preamp....and one has to control the preamp tone settings when volume/gain is pushed. That is why a MK Boogie without a post-EQ graphic is not an amp I want. The post-preamp Graphic Eq can be used to re-establish the tones...especially the low end which needs to be carefully tended to in the preamp EQ section when volume is pushed.
This is why I asked how you set the amp up. One can run these BF/SF Reverb amps at very low volume and get wonderfully rich sounds by pushing the tone control up past 5. When pushing the preamp gain/channel volume, past 5, the tones need to come down...especially the lows.
I take it you have the MV at 10???
the biasing is also a big part of things. That is why I asked about that....not just whether or not it was biased but at what plate dissipation it was biased. When one pays $400 for service, that information should be written on the work order, imho. IT is good for the owner to know that, and it is good for the tech to have that information for future reference, ime.
That Vibrasonic in the link is essentially a Twin Reverb with a 15" speaker. It will do big and clean.
I have both the PR and the SR currently... the SR starts to break up around the same setting as the PR. They are close to the same volume as well as my SR has Alnico CTS speakers and the PR has a bit more efficient ceramic speakers. Side by side they both sound wonderful and voice very similar.
In no particular order...
There was a work order for everything done to the amp, and he explained it to me thoroughly when I picked the amp up. But that was a year ago, and I've lost the paperwork, and my memory has been beaten senseless by a very stress filled year.
No, I don't set the MV at ten. I set it between 4 and 7 depending on circumstances. I try to keep things low, and balance between preamp and power amp gain.
I've contacted the guy with the Vibrasonic, and if I can move this amp for 500.00 which seems very fair, then I'm going to go check it out. But I'm still seriously entertaining just paying the new tech I've found to mod the amp to my liking. My experience has been that a good tech can do a lot with an amp, by only making small, strategic changes.
Thanks for the thorough explanation/answer to my question.
Which Pro Reverb? master volume and ultra linear or non MV non UL? The MV/UL sounds very different from the earlier non UL versions.
That is true they do sound different... mine is non-MV and non UL... although the other guitarist uses a PR like yours at band practice and it sounds great to me.. maybe it's his playing????
My experience has been that something can sound great when someone else is playing, but when my hands are connected to the same equipment, it can change profoundly. Hendrix, and countless others sound great through a Marshall, but I've never plugged into one I thought sounded good clean. Or 80's King Crimson with the JC-120's, owned a JC-120 and sold it, Ugh. Or Mike Stern with his Yamaha, another ugh, when I tried to make it work. And I can't count the tube screamers I've bought or traded for, and gotten rid of. Good is so subjective.
Wish I could offer some good advice . . . I would lean to the DeVille. I gig an American HRD on the 2nd drive channel, which many internet people say don't do. I crank the bass and have the reverb, treble, presence and mids very low (saw an interview with Campilongo) and with a Strat get a sweet warm singing tone that cleans up when I back off the guitar volume, but gets a great smooth overdrive when I turn it up. (Don't like piercing or ratty distortion).
I forgot to respond to part of this. At stage volume, the treble sits at around 4.4.5 the mids hover at 5 and the bass gets cut to about 3. the preamp somewhere around 4 to 6, and the master between 4 and 7. But even then, it breaks up with the CTS speakers in it, once the two volumes get to about 5ish. The vibrato channel is even worse, consequently, I don't use it.
As someone who uses HRDs I agree that you can get a decent tone on the drive channel. (been saying that here for a while) The problem is that the HRD series are a mono channel design where the gain is inserted into the lone input single/path. Hence.... Using the Drive channel and getting a decent tone, the EQ settings are way different (almost opposite) of the EQ's settings one would employ for the clean.
IMO... because of this unconventual factor.... people say the Drive channel is garbage. can't blame them for thinking that, trying to use the amp as a 2 channel amp… not their fault, Fender markets the line as such.
My experience … to get the max out of the HRD line... Being a mono channel amp... One has to operate HRD's either has a Clean amp, or as a Dirty amp, but not both.