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7th grade almost over - brutal - can't get my kid to fight

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Mike Eskimo, Jun 4, 2015.

  1. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Telefied Ad Free Member

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    My son came out of an elementary school (K-6) that was almost enchanted it was so peaceful and loved-filled and there were butterflies and it was very maternalistic. It was also one of those schools where you have to apply to get in and volunteer as a parent while your kid goes there. So - you have to make an effort as a parent.

    Middle school this year ? Take all the kids from his shangri la elementary school and mix them in w/ an equal number of kids from the cross-town elementary school (the little pen) where the only qualification is - well, there isn't any.

    Parents of those kids make sure their li'l angels are dressed really cute for the first day and picture day and they drive 'em to school , but other than that ? No involvement, no effort as a parent besides making the kid.

    Lots of fights and general very rough pushing/slamming into lockers and crap in the hallways between classes. My son has taken a very defensive posture on all this and comes home angry if anything has gone down during the day.

    I tell him to avoid it by staying alert, walking upright w/ his shoulders back and - if he does get hit, slammed, punched (almost none of it is really beyond general 13-14 yr old knucklehead horseplay) to hit back/defend himself.

    BTW - he's tall and solid and very strong.


    I told him he will never get in trouble with us (his parents) if we're called to the office because he was in a fight defending himself.

    He doesn't want any part of it. He can't wrap his head around people not being nice. He feels why should he have to take part in it.

    Oy...

    11 days left. They do say 8th grade is better. I guess we'll see.
     
  2. BartS

    BartS Friend of Leo's

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    Nothing wrong with defending yourself. When I was a kid it was always the rule never throw the first punch. I don't like violence and don't like fighting in general but kids who are taught non violence and never learn how to stick up for themselves grow up with a lot of pent up emotional aggression and the only emotions guys should have when they get older are things like hungry:D

    My schools there weren't a whole lot of fights but everyone was generally ignorant and mean spirited. Some how or another as everyone got older we all learned to get along. I'm not say it's for sure but where I grew up all the guys shared an affinity for reefer, hallucinogenics and alcohol. Didn't matter who they were. I don't think it's really a bonding experience so much as it mellows everyone out.
     
  3. Jamie Black

    Jamie Black Friend of Leo's

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    Mike, sorry for your son's troubles. In a way he sounds just like I was except that even though I had a father he was so bat ***** crazy or drunk he was never there. Around 8th grade I made friends with a kid from my baseball team and his father made a major impact on me. He really made a point of not being a bully and fighting but if some one messed with you it was three strikes and you got the holy hell beat out of you. That was the year I stood up to a bully and beat the tar out of him in front of the principal's office. I didn't have anymore problem's the rest of Jr. high.

    My guess is that your son will decide when the line was crossed and make his stand in his own time.
     
  4. SixStringSlinger

    SixStringSlinger Friend of Leo's

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    Recommendation from a guy who's never been a parent, but remembers 7th grade (which sucked): Have you given a thought to enrolling your son in some kind of self-defense classes, or some kind of sport? Basically, I'm thinking of some physical activity. I figure it could help him blow off steam after a bad day, as well as help his big, strong self defend himself the day he decides he's had enough. Just a thought.
     
  5. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    Our kids learnt dirty fightin' from watchin' me and the Missus.
     
  6. christhee68

    christhee68 Friend of Leo's

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    Kids pick on him because they can. If he takes out one of them he'll never get picked on again.

    It happened to me in 8th grade. I was the new kid and school and would get pushed, picked on, etc. One day I took out the school bully on the school bus. Bloodied him up pretty good and his eye was swollen shut for about a week.

    No one messed with me any more.:D
     
  7. johnnyrotten

    johnnyrotten Tele-Meister

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    The best defense is a good offense. My son will never get in trouble for standing up for himself, either. Blowing off steam is a good idea, though.
     
  8. bparnell57

    bparnell57 Poster Extraordinaire

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    If you're gonna fight, punch first, and punch hard.
     
  9. Uncle Joe

    Uncle Joe Friend of Leo's

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    Not easy. Getting kids from 7th grade to the middle part of junior year in high school seems to be the key. That's the tough part for the kids and the parents. If you can all get through that successfully, you'll have a great young adult on your hands. A lot of it has to do with the groundwork set when they were little kids. Sounds like you've got that covered. Good luck through the tough part.
     
  10. Jupiter

    Jupiter Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Yeah, that's one way...
     
  11. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

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    If there is a way put your son in a school that is more in keeping with what he's attended in the past, do it. I have done my share of fighting, I don't recommend it, fighting can easily escalate into something more. Sometimes hitting back seems the only way, but it's not THE answer no matter what. I have a life long friend who killed a kid when he was fifteen years old in a fight. He grabbed a club to add to the mix, and well, heads and wood don't mix. He's been messed up most of his life from that one bad day long ago. Fighting is like grabbing a rattlesnake by the tail, it might seem like a good idea at the time, but it's hard to let him go without getting bit in the process.
     
  12. unixfish

    unixfish Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    11 days left? Crickey, our school system was done on May 28th. We seem to be ending earlier and earlier every year.

    Tough call about the roughhousing. It was good advice to walk straight with your shoulders back. My youngest just finished his Freshman year in High School; he is 6 foot tall, a good sized kid, with a deep voice. I told him stand tall, walk "firmly with purpose", and don't call attention to yourself. This has served him well; he does not get picked on.

    Here's one. If someone is giving you the push around, tell them "Dude, pretty funny!" and offer a fist bump. Make a tight fist, and do the bump with a fast, short, follow through stroke about an inche behind where their fist is. If the other person is not expecting it, it hurts. But, since you are "congratulating their dumbasserie", you will earn respect without them knowing it was a condescension effort.

    OK - don't tell him that.

    I showed my son how to do this for his friends. When he did, they all said "Ouch! Did Mr. Unixfish show you how to do that?" Yeah, they all have my number. With heavy sarcasm comes heavy responsibility. :D

    It is good your son has the views he does; I agree with what seems to be your fear of him dealing with stupidity in the real world.
     
  13. E5RSY

    E5RSY Doctor of Teleocity

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    This is the hardest part...there is no good answer. He is just going to have to emotionally digest that sad fact. Part of growing up, unfortunately, is realizing how crappy the world is. Give him Krav Maga classes for his birthday. Nobody should be expected to just take it.

    Scott
     
  14. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I could have edited my post but I'm still trying to convey an idea. Once you throw that first blow, it seems life keeps putting you in situations where it gets easier to throw a punch. Finally, it gets to be THE answer for you. I'm not sure it's something that's just inside you either, because I once had to fight a man with a gun that life sent my way, I have told that story here once so I'm not going over that again. Suffice to say, I was VERY lucky to have come away from that situation alive.

    I also thought it was a pretty good idea to resist arrest not once, but three times. The last one of those sessions cured my propensity to settle matters with my fists. The police enjoy kicking your a$$ that's what they are trained to do, contain you, the more you resist, the more they contain you. They also don't want any of their brothers to miss out on the containing so they always have enough of them present to do a real good job of containment. Don't start down that road if there's any other way. Lest you think I'm bitter at the police, I will tell you I am not. The police taught me a lesson, one that I finally absorbed, that no one else was able to.
     
  15. Joe Baggadonitz

    Joe Baggadonitz Friend of Leo's

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    always a tough call. A very good friend told me, "if you have to fight and there's no way out, throw as many punches as you can and keep throwing them! aim for the nose and the throat" That was a high school survival tip. Needles to say, fighting is a dangerous game with dire consequences.
    I was doing a gig at a bar. 2 guys got into it outside the bar- guy got punched went down hit his head went unconscious and died. other guy went to jail. 2 families pretty much ruined as a result of a very poor choice by an idiot. I always tell kids that things can change 'forever' in the blink of an eye.

    unfortunately, often times someone has to be made an example with a sound thrashing to show others, 'don't fugg with me!'
     
  16. Deeve

    Deeve Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    TLDR? - Words are not the only Tools

    I was picked on at school and didn't get much in the way of support.
    To be fair, I probably didn't know how to ask for help.
    This may have something to do w/ my interest/activities in anti-bullying/inclusion related stuff (and my shift from litigation to mediation practice at work).
    All that love & peace stuff aside, one of the things I've learned is that some folks are not receptive to "reasonable discussion" and you need to get their attention the old-fashioned way.

    Peaceful Deeve's suggestion: at the next parent/teacher conf ask your school staff rep "what are your conflict resolution tools?" and listen to their rap w/o interruption.
    Show them the respect of hearing them out and when they finish, ask them if there's anything _else_ they want you to know?
    Then ask about little Biff or Knuckles or whatever is the name of your kid's tormentor. What _are_ their "tools" for dealing w/ his/her aggression to your kid?
    Educators, like other work-fields, like key-words, and "tools" is one of 'em.
    Again, after they've spoken w/o interruption and have been asked if there's anything else, quietly explain that you have additional dispute resolution "tools" and will use them if theirs fail.

    Pause.
    Breathe.

    Some will understand what is not spoken explicitly.
    Others may inquire "say more about these additional tools..."?
    I'm a peaceful man; my kid comes from a school and home culture where conflict resolution is the norm, yet I understand that's not how everybody rolls and I'm willing to adapt and "meet them where they are at" (grammar police - yes - I know, but that's the phrase: meet where they are at...).
    "If the school is unable to convince Biff or Knuckles to 'use their words...' and whatever 'conflict resolution tools' you've described, our tools include a hammer and a bone-saw. The ball is in your court."
    Now they are on notice; they will understand that you can meet them in a conference room and respectfully exchange words/ideas w/o raising your voice and w/o interruption.
    And, they are aware that you have access to other "tools" when words fail.

    It's been more than 20 years since I got my certificate for completing Anger Management Class.[mistakes made/lessons learned] AMC has helped me be a kinder, calmer driver and I let a lot of things pass w/o "reacting".

    My kid getting hit is _not_ one of 'em.

    Peace - Deeve
     

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  17. urizen

    urizen Tele-Afflicted

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    You're funny:lol:.
     
  18. E5RSY

    E5RSY Doctor of Teleocity

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    Your point is well-taken. But, I don't think anyone is advocating he adopt the lifestyle of Conan the Barbarian. Extremes in anything are problematic, as you point out. Equally as tragic as a life of violence, though, is one characterized by passivity as the default mode of operation.
     
  19. Wallo Tweed

    Wallo Tweed Friend of Leo's

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    Things aren't the way they used to be. Sometimes when the bully does get whats coming to him, the next day he comes back with a gun cause he was disrespected.
    When the kids were in school I gave them the same advice as the op. Don't know what I would do now if faced with this same situation.
     
  20. J-man

    J-man Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I think the point he's making is the more comfortable you get defending yourself physically, the more likely it could be that you end up an aggressor at some point in the future. Not always true, IME, but not always untrue either.

    It's pretty hard to give someone advice on whether they should or shouldn't get involved in a punch up, because it's so contextual. I will never start a fight, but if someone strikes me first, I'm probably going to hit them back, whether it's a good idea or not.
     
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