1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

70's Eminence alnico 10s - any good?

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by 11 Gauge, Sep 22, 2020.

  1. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    11,538
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2003
    Location:
    Near BWI Int'l
    I've got a 70's Gibson 'SG Systems' amp in the 4X10 configuration, and I'll never get it up and running again (most likely) because it uses odd, expensive, and rare 8417 power tubes (and the amp currently has none). But it has a quartet of Eminence alnico 10s in it, that I can potentially use in the following amp:

    I've got a ~'67 Super Reverb that I like a lot, but it's got overly efficient ceramics in it that seem to be holding it back.

    I'd love to get a set of something that are close to the original CTS alnico 10s, but don't currently have the budget for that.

    ...But, I don't want to go to the trouble of pulling the 4 Emi alnicos and dropping them in the SR, if it's just going to be a 'meh' experience. TTBOMK, the speakers are in good condition.

    So - what's the deal with those 70's Emi alnicos? I'm assuming they probably aren't that great, or there'd be more of a buzz around people getting their hands on them.

    Edited to add - here's a generic picture of the speakers:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  2. Dan_Pomykalski

    Dan_Pomykalski Tele-Meister

    Age:
    30
    Posts:
    299
    Joined:
    May 16, 2019
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    Where are the Eminence speakers coming from? Is that how the Gibson amp is relevant to this?
     
  3. marshman

    marshman Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    5,187
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Location:
    SE PA
    Honestly, as handy with tools as you seem, the swap seems like a walk in the park, and I cannot imagine anyone being able to tell you any better than just doing it will.
     
    BobbyZ and JustABluesGuy like this.
  4. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    11,538
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2003
    Location:
    Near BWI Int'l
    Yeah, sorry that wasn't clear (and edited my orig. post). The Gibson 'SG Systems' amp has the speakers in it. My cousin gave me the amp a couple of years ago, and it's just been sitting in my garage. It's a beast of a thing, and was never really a popular amp (solid state preamp with built in phaser effect), and that's now compounded by the odd/expensive/rare 8417 power tubes that it requires (and it currently has none).

    ...My cousin demo'ed the speakers in the cab with an amp head that he had, before he dropped off the 'SG Systems' at my house. So I know that they sound 'generally good.'

    I just don't want to go thru the trouble of swapping the speakers out of the 'SG Systems' and into my SR, if they aren't going to sound at least 80% as good as CTS alnicos (or other current alnico 10s which are designed to be similar), or clearly better than the ceramics that I currently have in the SR. If the 70's Emi alnicos are just 'meh,' I'd rather wait until I have the budget for the right alnico 10s.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
    Dan_Pomykalski likes this.
  5. dougstrum

    dougstrum Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,820
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2015
    Location:
    blu ridge mtn cabin
    Worth trying~if they are anything like the blue frame alnico/1028 you're in for a treat!
    I'd give it a try;)
     
  6. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    12,601
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    Location:
    northwest
    A) Connect a cable to the speakers where they are. (are they wired right for a Super?)
    B) Listen.

    My guess is they are pretty good. Efficient heavy duty speakers are not a good match for a Super. Unless you are trying to be very loud.
    But Alnico's are different and some people dont like them in general so.....
     
    BobbyZ and ce24 like this.
  7. Paul G.

    Paul G. Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,403
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    I had them in my MusicMan HD130 2x10 combo. They were really nice speakers. Nice full tone and I didn't blow them despite the immense power of that amp.

    BTW -- CTS (Chicago Telephone Systems) moved their manufacturing facilities to Eminence, Kentucky and renamed the company, you guessed it, Eminence.
     
  8. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    11,538
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2003
    Location:
    Near BWI Int'l
    The current wiring is a nasty rat's nest, and I'd have to check that it's indeed 2 ohms. It looks like what's in there now terminates to a male RCA jack, not sure if that is stock to the 'SG Systems' amp, or someone added it.

    The 'SG Systems' amp is in my detached garage. The thing is a beast on wheels. My SR is currently in my basement. And it doesn't help that I have a bad back. If this wasn't the time of COVID, I could probably get someone to help me move these two amps around as needed.

    If I could at least guesstimate on whether it's worthwhile to pull the speakers from the 'SG Systems' amp, I'll probably end up doing that. But if the speakers are probably dogs, and it's not worth the trouble, I'll probably just unload the entire amp for the little money I might get for it.
     
  9. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    11,538
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2003
    Location:
    Near BWI Int'l
    This I knew, but didn't want to assume that the 70's Emi alnicos were the same exact thing as the CTS ones.

    I took some pics of the speakers in mine, FWIW:

    DSCN0942.JPG DSCN0946.JPG DSCN0947.JPG
     
    tah1962 likes this.
  10. tah1962

    tah1962 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,459
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2020
    Location:
    Heart of Illinois
    You could send pictures of the speakers and codes to Anthony Lucas at Eminence. He is usually very quick to respond. I’m sure he could tell you exactly what you have.
     
  11. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    12,601
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    Location:
    northwest
    Big magnets on those for alnico 10's. I'd give them a try for sure. They may be great. It's just a turkey shoot really. Some older Peavey amps had various Emi speakers from Alnico to square magnet ceramics. Some of those speakers were not great after so many years. Just really hard to say.
     
  12. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    11,538
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2003
    Location:
    Near BWI Int'l
    Yeah, I have a '71 VR that had Emi alnicos in it (with the Fender logos on them), and they weren't that great, or at least weren't much good by the time I got that particular amp, back about 17 years ago. But those particular speakers are different from what's in the 'SG Systems' amp - smaller magnets, for starters. They just broke up way too early, and were loose and flubby - they had no punch to them.

    It looks like the 'SG Systems' is much higher in power, thanks to the 8417 power tubes. Not sure if it is truly 100 watts, but I still suspect that the alnico 10s in it have to be capable of somewhat higher power handling. Whether or not that would translate to them sounding good, or at least like the old CTS alnico 10s, in the SR, is something that I wouldn't be able to speculate on.

    Maybe I'll pull them just to inspect the cones/surrounds/dust caps more closely. But another problem that I have is that I've already got like over a dozen speakers in boxes, and I'm running out of room to store them.
     
  13. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    37,185
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    I respect the big magnet Emi alnicos that I have had...they were out of Music Man amps.
     
  14. JustABluesGuy

    JustABluesGuy Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    63
    Posts:
    2,965
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2016
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I’m a little late to the discussion, but would try them out.

    I’m curious if you tried them out yet.
     
    BobbyZ likes this.
  15. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    12,990
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Location:
    Snellman MN
    I've read that many times, and believed it, but I've seen Eminence speakers made before CTS speakers. So tonight I did a little fact checking.
    Guy left CTS and started Eminence in 1966, pretty much before CTS made the good 10 alnicos.
    https://www.eminence.com/eminence-celebrates-50-years/

    At any rate I'd certainly take the time to try these speakers in my SR if I had them!
    That's the only way you're going to find out.
     
  16. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    11,538
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2003
    Location:
    Near BWI Int'l
    Not yet, but still considering it. What I really need is four boxes for 10s, which will either be for the Emi alnicos if they don't work out, or for the four 10s currently in the SR that will get replaced.
     
  17. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    12,990
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Location:
    Snellman MN
    Guess I'd just hook um up to the SR in the cab there in and try it. All you gotta do is wire um in parallel and hook um up to the SR. That way if they suck, you can haul the whole Gibson to the dump, or try to sell it as is.
     
  18. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    11,538
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2003
    Location:
    Near BWI Int'l
    Yeah, that's the basic plan, but with the bigger issue being that the Gibson is in my detached garage, and the SR is currently in my basement. Also, the speaker wiring in the Gibson is a rat's nest, but to temporarily connect it to the SR, I'd have to replace the male RCA connector with a female 1/4" jack. That's not really a biggie, I guess, but the garage is a total mess (I've got a bunch of cut leftover flooring pieces stacked on top of the Gibson amp).

    ...The Gibson amp looks like it's built in a flight case, and apparently has wheels on it from the factory. I'd just take it into the basement, if the staircase wasn't narrow, and/or my back was in better shape. My SR has no wheels on it.

    So even four 10s, by themselves, are pretty easy to move around. And I'm kind of curious as to the actual condition of the cones/surrounds/etc. on the Emis, regardless of how good they might sound w/o knowing.
     
    BobbyZ likes this.
  19. tubegeek

    tubegeek Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    60
    Posts:
    3,879
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Could you just swap out 1? You'd -possibly- be able to at least tell if they were horrible, right? I'd think determining whether the 80% goal is in sight ought to be doable with just the one. You'd be able to assess the difference in efficiency a bit that way too.

    I realize you'd be hearing 3 other speakers at the same time, though. But you seem to know your own taste in speakers well enough.
     
    BobbyZ likes this.
  20. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    37,185
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    11 Gauge, imho and for my purposes, those speakers are the only thing in that Gibson that I would care about. I would pull the speakers. IF I could sell the amp without the speakers for $50, I personally would consider myself ahead of the game. You are in a densely populated area. There might be someone nearby who would want the amp for some reason. One came to me for repair. I wanted nothing to do with it so I farmed it out to a young fellow who was finishing up his master’s in EE here at Texas Tech. He was not impressed with the amp other than he liked the effects.....for some odd reason. I was not impressed with the amp at all. OMMV.

    IF the speakers are 8 ohm speakers and IF they are all functional, install them in the SR and see what you think. You might be surprised.
     
    JustABluesGuy and BobbyZ like this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.