64-67 Blackpanel Fender Collectors

[rdjones]

I've had a large number of various eras of Fender amps pass through my hands during my years as a dealer. Only two actual "64-67" examples remain:
1966 Bassman
1964 Princeton (nr)
The Bassman is mostly unmolested, but the Princeton is one of those heavily modified "Prune Boogie" amps where only the hacked up shell is left.

I also have several late CBS blackface amps that I have hung on to:
1980 Bassman 135
1981 Champ
1981 Deluxe Reverb
1982 MusicMaster Bass
1983 Champ II

Note that Fender did not have an exclusive monopoly on blackface control panels.
Aireon jukebox amps used blackface panels as early as 1946.
Same with brownface plates, Bell & Howell was using a brownface at least by 1955.

The Champ is modded for 6L6 with a Champ 12 output transformer, balanced heaters, ¼" speaker jack and Legend 10". I usually run a 6V6, though.

 

[ETMusic777]

Personal stash - 1966 Showman/1965 Deluxe Reverb

Perhaps its time to come out of the closet.

 

[ETMusic777]

They introduced a line of blackface amps in August/September 1963, in addition to the Deluxe-Amp there was also a Concert-Amp, Vibrolux-Amp, Pro-Amp, and a Vibroverb-Amp in the first batch. Maybe Tremolux too. I don't remember if they had any of the Reverb amps in the first batch other than the Vibroverb, but the Deluxe Reverb, Vibrolux Reverb, Super Reverb and Twin Reverb were around by the beginning of 1964. Some amps, such as the Bassman-Amp, Princeton-Amp, Princeton Reverb-Amp, Champ-Amp and Vibro Champ-Amp came later. I don't know when the Bandmaster and Showmans were phased in, there were some transitional piggyback amps with mixed blond/black features through early 1964.

I hope others who have more specific information on the early Blackface Fender timeline will chime in to correct any mistakes here, and add missing details.

The early BF Bandmasters had blonde tolex, but were really just BF in every other way. My late 63 Bandmaster has been re-tolexed in black. I am thinking about switching it back to its original Blonde since that is how it shipped. According to my research online, the BF Bandmasters in Blonde shipped up until about June 1964, for whatever reason. Ive seen a couple for sale in original Blonde that late in to 64. Crazy. Anyway thats the history on the BF Bandmaster as far as I have figured out.

Check this out:

 

[tgilton]

1964 Bandmaster and Cabinet. Pre-CBS (Fender Electric Instruments). Re-capped electrolytics, but all original signal caps are good. 3 prong power cord.

 

[tgilton]

The early BF Bandmasters had blonde tolex, but were really just BF in every other way. My late 63 Bandmaster has been re-tolexed in black. I am thinking about switching it back to its original Blonde since that is how it shipped. According to my research online, the BF Bandmasters in Blonde shipped up until about June 1964, for whatever reason. Ive seen a couple for sale in original Blonde that late in to 64. Crazy. Anyway thats the history on the BF Bandmaster as far as I have figured out.

Check this out:

Nice amp! The '64 I just posted was assembled in week 2 of '64. EVERYTHING is 1963, about week 40-45, including the pots. Black tolex with hybrid of AA763 and AB763 circuits. It is definitely a '64, but VERY early. They must have started it before Christmas, and finished it after the break.

 

[David Barnett]

One blackface I've always lusted after was the non-reverb Deluxe.
That would be really cool to have!

I've had mine since 1989, I'll never part with it. But I still lust after a non-reverb Vibrolux-Amp and Pro-Amp. (...and a brown Vibrolux, brown Super...)

 

[ETMusic777]

Nice amp! The '64 I just posted was assembled in week 2 of '64. EVERYTHING is 1963, about week 40-45, including the pots. Black tolex with hybrid of AA763 and AB763 circuits. It is definitely a '64, but VERY early. They must have started it before Christmas, and finished it after the break.

Very cool. Fender was doing some overlappping of things then, which definitely happened with your hybrid circuit and black tolex. Ive seen blondes on Reverb.com with as late as June 64 tube charts on them, so they were still shipping blondes too well in to 64. Weird.

Here is one on Reverb for sale. Blonde with "NK" tube chart...so November of 64? Thats crazy.

Fender Bandmaster 40-Watt Guitar Head | Reverb

Fender Blonde Bandmaster vintage. not a reissue. AB763 circuit. Made in November of 1964Comes with cover, tremolo controls don’t seem to do anything even with a switch attached (no switch included) Otherwise works great and Sounds so good.Shipping is to lower 48 USA only. I'm willing to ship else...

reverb.com

Mine has an NA for Jan.64 tube chart, but like yours everything inside is 1963 and the chassis serial number, 01331 is a 63 according to the dating Fender amps data. Mine has blonde fibers inside the cabinet still, so it was blonde before someone tolexed it black recently, (I think Mojotone did it). Unfortunately the previous owner removed all the blue Ajax caps and did the entire amp in Orange Sprague caps. Thats fine, there is no difference in sound, however Id still like to have the blue Ajax in there.

I bought this Bandmaster package from Guitarcenter used last year, which included the head which was retolexed and grilled, a 2x10 Mojotone cabinet with new (2020 date stamp) Jensen C10Qs in it. They also included a brand new Bandmaster faceplate, which I am not using because the original faceplate is fine. All of that came in Mojotone boxes from Guitar Center. For whatever reason, the previous owner had Mojotone do all of that work and then sold it to GC for whatever reason, and it ended up in a Texas store. The tubes were original RCA Blackfaces. The idiots at GC left the tubes in during shipping, which cracked and broke. They sent me a matched pair of Groove Tube 6L6s as replacements, but its not the same. So I put a vintage matched set of General Electric 6L6s in there. Now I have an extra RCA which I am holding on to for future use.

 

[ETMusic777]

Reverb deals today: 65 Bandmaster with "Colombia Records" misspelled on the back like my 65 has. $845

Fender Black Panel Bandmaster 40-Watt 2-Channel Guitar Amp Head 1963 - 1967 | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

reverb.com

AB165 Bassman, no specific year but its probably a 67 according to the s/n. Great deal at $700 but local pickup in NY only. This one will sell by end of week.

Fender Black Panel Bassman 2-Channel 50-Watt Guitar Amp Head 1964 - 1967 | Reverb

Shop New & Used Fender Black Panel Bassman Heads

reverb.com

The same guy has a 66 or 67 Bandmaster for $950: https://reverb.com/item/65374111-fe...channel-guitar-amp-head-1963-1967-black-panel

Several drip edge 68-69 Bassman are on Reverb for $1000 ish. I think every guitar player should own a vintage Bassman, like a rite of passage. In a few years, it will be rare to find a head under $1000.

 

[Sombrero Top]

They introduced a line of blackface amps in August/September 1963, in addition to the Deluxe-Amp there was also a Concert-Amp, Vibrolux-Amp, Pro-Amp, and a Vibroverb-Amp in the first batch. Maybe Tremolux too. I don't remember if they had any of the Reverb amps in the first batch other than the Vibroverb, but the Deluxe Reverb, Vibrolux Reverb, Super Reverb and Twin Reverb were around by the beginning of 1964. Some amps, such as the Bassman-Amp, Princeton-Amp, Princeton Reverb-Amp, Champ-Amp and Vibro Champ-Amp came later. I don't know when the Bandmaster and Showmans were phased in, there were some transitional piggyback amps with mixed blond/black features through early 1964.

I hope others who have more specific information on the early Blackface Fender timeline will chime in to correct any mistakes here, and add missing details.

I think Super Reverb was introduced late 1963.

1963 Fender Super Reverb 4x10" "Blackface" ....first year made ! - GuitarPoint

1963 Fender Super Reverb 4x10" "Blackface" Amp Clean 1963 Fender Super Reverb 4x10" "Blackface" tube amplifier in excellent and all original condition. One of the most sought after vintage Amps, this is the first year they made the Fender Super Reverb. The amplifier is in excellent condition for...

guitarpoint.de

I Got '64.

 

[knavel]

I agree it's all about context, and I obviously agree there was likely no ill will calling a black control panel amp by the term "blackface" back in the 60s. That same term however has another meaning widely known outside our guitar amp world...and that one is loaded.

No. There has been no ill will using the term from the 1960s into 2023, not just in the 1960s. No other meaning of the term is "loaded" in speech alone--rather, its a specific and deliberate action that is "loaded" and something for my own part I've never seen or known anyone to do other than a prime minister and a state governor and in both cases there were no Fender amps of any genre in sight. In other words the twain have never met prior to posts like yours.

Whatever. Semantics right? Indeed and I could care less about how to talk about a classification of amplifiers. The problem, however, is that your argument could apply (and has been applied) to the use of any word or term that can be cast in a negative or pejorative context. The word "black" alone could reference a finish on a car, a spider, etc., etc.; but because there is a feasible scenario where the word can be used pejoratively or worse doesn't mean the word should be ousted from the English language. But that's where things are right now, we have recently had Stanford University tell us that words like "field", "landlord", "straight", should no longer be used

Sorry, a group of self appointed people don't get to be the arbiters about language and polite terminology.

I have and have had so many blackface amps, 3x Twin Reverb, 2x Super Reverb, 2x Deluxe Reverb, 2x Princeton Reverb, 2x Vibro Champ, 1x Deluxe no verb; 1x Vibrolux Reverb. The winner: My 1961 Gibson GA-19RVT Falcon. (The Vibrolux Reverb)

PS - what is the proposed new name for Blackguard Telecasters?

 

[gridlock]

I’ve owned a many of BF and SF Fender Combos over the years, some models 4-6 times each. My favorite Fender amps were a ‘65 VR, a ‘65 DR, a ‘66 TR and a ‘67 drip-edge black-line SR.

I’ve also own some very good sounding SF Fender amps. Some SF amps as good or better than the same model BF amp. To me, speakers make the biggest difference in the sound of these amps. Note, that all of my amps were serviced and in good working order.

My current Fender Pro Reverb. It’s actually a ‘71 SF amp that has been BF modded. Also a good sounding amp.

 

[AlbertaGriff]

I could care less

This means you DO care.

 

[SoK66]

My '66's, Deluxe Reverb & Pro Reverb. While the Brown panel amps may have Leo's quality peak (they're amazing), the black panel AB763 circuit is tone heaven. A testament to how well made all these amps are, thousands are still out there working every day.

 

[KeepItSimpleTele]

one is. the other is from 1964, the aa864.
play music!

I have the AB165. How does the AA864 compare tone wise?

 

[tacobender]

67 pro reverb, 66 Bassman, honorary mention, early 68 black line, drip edge super reverb. If you’re not familiar, there’s small black vertical lines on the face plate that were only used for a short period. The circuit is the same as a 67. The super is my favorite. I can’t get myself to part with the others though. I also have a custom built head loosely based on a vibrolux.

 

[CCK1]

I'm old.

I'm offended by "silverface."

I don't like this comment, I LOVE this comment!

 

[ETMusic777]

All I will say is that term has been used to describe the amps for 60 years, as have "blonde", "tweed", "silverface" etc. If they were Purple, like Apogee products, people would call them "purpleface". It never was intended to "marginalize" anybody. One of the hallmarks of M===xism is to change the definitions of words to suit an agenda. Lots of that going on these days and its not good. Lets keep this a fun topic.

I got a weeks suspension from the forum for posting this.

 

[KeepItSimpleTele]

I got a weeks suspension from the forum for posting this.

hmm. Better to keep the conversation open I think than to suspend for this IMO.

Any more amps people want to post pics of from this era?

 

[Jasonpatrick]

No. There has been no ill will using the term from the 1960s into 2023, not just in the 1960s. No other meaning of the term is "loaded" in speech alone--rather, its a specific and deliberate action that is "loaded" and something for my own part I've never seen or known anyone to do other than a prime minister and a state governor and in both cases there were no Fender amps of any genre in sight. In other words the twain have never met prior to posts like yours.

Whatever. Semantics right? Indeed and I could care less about how to talk about a classification of amplifiers. The problem, however, is that your argument could apply (and has been applied) to the use of any word or term that can be cast in a negative or pejorative context. The word "black" alone could reference a finish on a car, a spider, etc., etc.; but because there is a feasible scenario where the word can be used pejoratively or worse doesn't mean the word should be ousted from the English language. But that's where things are right now, we have recently had Stanford University tell us that words like "field", "landlord", "straight", should no longer be used

Sorry, a group of self appointed people don't get to be the arbiters about language and polite terminology.

I have and have had so many blackface amps, 3x Twin Reverb, 2x Super Reverb, 2x Deluxe Reverb, 2x Princeton Reverb, 2x Vibro Champ, 1x Deluxe no verb; 1x Vibrolux Reverb. The winner: My 1961 Gibson GA-19RVT Falcon. (The Vibrolux Reverb)

PS - what is the proposed new name for Blackguard Telecasters?

Little different here in the states then over there in London Town…. I mean, Y’all lost yer sht over the new PM lol… it’s just an amp. Black panel.. real easy to say and it’s technically a panel …. Now Don’t get me started on whirling logs! …

 

[Jasonpatrick]

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