60 Cycle Hum - Teles - Princeton Reverb

[Will13]

Hi Guys,



I really need your help. I’ve been driving myself crazy this past week. Some of you may remember me posting about concerns for buying a Princeton Reverb (Bordeaux Special Edition) I received the amp on Tuesday. All the concerns I had about the tone, volume, tight low end with the speaker (Jensen P12Q) Have been answered. Everything works fine for my needs in those respects.



New set of issues: I have been experiencing intolerable amounts of hum when using either of my Telecasters (’52 Reissue, and Mexican Standard) and it’s the same exact hum. If I turn the volume on the amp up to 3 or more, and I just have the guitar going straight into the amp, there’s an annoying hum. If I raise the amp volume, it gets exponentially worse. If I use a drive pedal, a fuzz pedal, it’s very bad. I’ve tried using the pedals with batteries and then with power supplies. Even if I attempt to roll of the volume on my guitar, I have to roll it off I’d say at least 50% for a substantial decrease in hum.



Then I did a ton of research on ground loops, since I haven’t used a tube amp in my townhouse that I moved into a few months ago, and even bought something called a “Hum X” by Ebtech, which I’m sure some of you have heard of. It didn’t change anything. I tried using the hum x, and just plugging straight into the wall from my amp at all locations of my house, where there are no dimmers/tv’s (minimal interference)



I have used my Ibanez that has hum buckers, and an ESP that has hum buckers, and the hum is substantially lower to non-existent when using those guitars. So my question is, do I need to shield my telecasters or get noiseless pickups? I just can’t imagine I would have to do that. I’ve been playing guitar for over 15 years, and played through lots of amps, and never really noticed this before. I got the first amp from guitar center online, shipped to me. Today I went into guitar center and explained the situation, played my guitar through the same amp, couldn’t get a good barometer on the hum because there was a lot of noise in the store, but I took home a second amp (same exact princeton, never opened) and now I have both of them at home, and they make the same exact hum.



I also have a Strat that needs to be stringed up, I’ll do that soon and test it out in the amp, but it’s got single coils just like the tele, so I’m assuming it’s going to do the same thing.



Any help would be greatly appreciated!! I’ve been driving myself nuts the past few days, trying to figure this out.



PS - Anyone have experience with The Electro Harmonix Hum debugger?….Would this help in my case? Is it more of a product from hum in single coils rather than ground loop issues?



Thanks!



-Will

 

[unixfish]

It could be a power issue where you live as well. I had a Princeton Chorus that was a hum monster with my Strat. I could turn the guitar 90 degrees, and it would stop. I have no idea if humbuckers would have solved that.

Maybe you need to take your guitar and amp somewhere else - maybe a friend's house - and see if it still does that?

These types of issues can be a bear to debug. Some amps are more sensitive to wiring, and if your townhouse "shares a wall" with neighbors, a dimmer switch in their unit could also be affecting yours.

Does the Guitar Center have a room to test amps that might be more quiet? That could help to see if it is power or gear.

Good luck. I once had two guitar cables go bad at the same time, and almost took my amp in for unnecessary repairs before I figured it out.

 

[Will13]

Thanks for the input. I have been using 3 different cables as well. I may try taking the amp to another location.

 

[BelairPlayer]

Does the hum change at all with reverb level? I had a similar issue with a brand new PRRI when I first got it. Had a bad reverb tube (I believe it was the 12at7 if I remember correctly). Hum would get worse with increased reverb and almost disappear with no reverb. Confirmed by swapping out the tube.

 

[jvin248]

.

You don't need strings on the Strat. Plug it in and see if the same or very similar hum in switch positions 1,3,5. The 2 & 4 should be as quiet as your other humbucker guitars, assuming you have a modern set of RWRP pickups in it.

Using your noisiest guitar, try holding it like a directional antenna to identify where the loudest and softest. This will help you locate the source. Could be something simple like the wall-wart charging your phone. Or high power lines outside the building.

Get some kitchen aluminum foil and carefully wrap the two wires together with the foil around them from the jack to the volume pot. get the foil to be grounded on the jack ground side and not short anything and see if that helps. Fender uses two unprotected wires to the jack while most other guitars shield that wire. I guess buyers complain they are not getting enough vintage noise! I find that run is about half the noise shielding benefit.

If no improvement, you could wrap the whole body in foil and ensure it's grounded to the jack and see if that cage works. If so you could pursue cavity shielding. A bit wasteful but if it identifies the problem source it will be worth it.

.

 

[RoscoeElegante]

Others here know much more than I about shielding, etc.

I'm a hum-hater, myself. The Hum-Debugger works well. I have one particularly noisy Strat-type and a dual P-90 guitar that I use it on all the time, and both need the "Strong" setting (vs. the Normal) for that guitar, too. Takes a very small and worth-it range of tone from the guitar, and adds maaaaaybe a bit of a metallic pinginess. But makes an otherwise unplayable guitar fine.

Either I'm going deaf or the hovering Martians have left, because I use the Hum-Debugger less than I used to. I think I just figured out how to dial things so that the hum was tolerable compared to tone richness. With some guitars + amps + pedals/even straight in, you want either the amp way up and the guitar down-ish or the guitar way up and the amp down-ish. You may have more hum-reducing wiggle room than you've thus far found. Habitually muting the strings/making contact with something metal/hum killing on the guitar between songs and even notes has helped a lot, too. But if you got the e-hornets problem hive-style, then yes, the Hum-Debug is worth the dough.

Be sure to police your place/house's wiring for dimmer switches, computers, etc. A friend had a terrible hum problem for his Strat until he bought his apartment-house neighbor's St. Pauli Girl neon sign for $50 just so he could have the damn thing unplugged.

Check out the many threads on this topic here, and good luck!

 

[DennisM]

I have the exact amp. Love it. I keep my tele next to it on a stand. When I turn the amp on and it warms up, it hums like crazy, but when I take the tele out of the stand to play and get it away from the amp, it's dead quiet. My LP is just plain dead quiet with the Bordeaux. That's the only noise issue I have with mine.

 

[BryMelvin]

How close are you to your amp? Step a few feet away and most of your noise will go away probably.

 

[Will13]

BryMelvin, my cords are 12feet long. Whether I'm inches away from the amp, or 10-12 feet away, the hum is pretty much the same. If I turn sideways sometimes, it goes down maybe 20-30% but there's no regularity to what direction I turn to make the hum softer.

PS - I ordered the Hum Debugger. Should be here on Tuesday. I'll still be tinkering until then. So suggestions still welcome, lol

 

[brookdalebill]

BryMelvin, my cords are 12feet long. Whether I'm inches away from the amp, or 10-12 feet away, the hum is pretty much the same. If I turn sideways sometimes, it goes down maybe 20-30% but there's no regularity to what direction I turn to make the hum softer.

PS - I ordered the Hum Debugger. Should be here on Tuesday. I'll still be tinkering until then. So suggestions still welcome, lol

Hum debuggers work beautifully!
Some people (ain't that always the way) think they adversely effect your tone.
I ain't among them.
Hope it fixes your problem.

 

[jsp737]

I had a bad noise problem with my '68 CDR until I removed all the compact fluorescent lights that were on the same circuit and replaced them with LED. Drastic change. Very quiet now.
JP

 

[61fury]

It could be a power issue where you live as well. I had a Princeton Chorus that was a hum monster with my Strat. I could turn the guitar 90 degrees, and it would stop. I have no idea if humbuckers would have solved that.

Maybe you need to take your guitar and amp somewhere else - maybe a friend's house - and see if it still does that?

These types of issues can be a bear to debug. Some amps are more sensitive to wiring, and if your townhouse "shares a wall" with neighbors, a dimmer switch in their unit could also be affecting yours.

Does the Guitar Center have a room to test amps that might be more quiet? That could help to see if it is power or gear.

Good luck. I once had two guitar cables go bad at the same time, and almost took my amp in for unnecessary repairs before I figured it out.

I noticed the same rotational affect, along one axis the guitar was noticeably quiet. I use an amplug and when I took the guitar ( Affinity Tele ) outside the same dynamic was going on, loud, loud ,loud, quiet depending on which direction I had the guitar aligned. It was parallel to what was going on inside

 

[10thoufirst]

The things I was going to suggest have been mentioned but I would like to add to the point made by @BryMelvin in that if the distance between you and your amp makes little noticeable difference to the hum levels, this suggests to me an earthing problem either from within the guitar itsself or, less likely in this case, the amp. However shielding inside the control cavity and pickup areas will help. Make sure that too is earthed.
Perhaps you could get a good tech to check things out for you if you do not feel up to it yourself, although nothing in the wiring of a Telecaster even approaches basic rocket science.

 

[jhundt]

if I sit near my amp I get a lot of low hum which is caused by the transformer in the amp. It goes away with humbuckers, because they are designed to do just that.

 

[The Blood]

+1 for the hum debugger. Used it yesterday at a rehearsal. I can't detect any significant change in tone with it on. There is a downside, however, in that it requires the use of its own power supply and won't work with the pedal power supply in my board. And, unlike most pedals, it won't let the signal through if that power isn't provided so I spent some time sorting that out at my last gig.

I'm no expert on pickups, but it seems to me in general that the richest, rawest sounds come from fairly noisy pickups and that the tendency to pick up outside signals is a byproduct of that pickup's sensitivity. Possibly not totally right, but enough so to make me explore the hum removal issue to some extent...

 

[ES330]

Here's a link to a Telecaster hum cancelling system.
http://www.ilitchelectronics.com/pgncs-t/

 

[King Fan]

You're on your way to checking one variable at a time, good de-bug process. By all means de-bug this without off-board pedals. The strat and humbucker tests should tell you if it's the amp per se. Taking it to a buddy's house may tell you if it's local wiring / lighting noise.

Does the hum change when you palm the strings on the Tele? It's normal to hum until you touch the strings. But you probably know that!

Did you check the effect of switching off the amp's verb/trem? How about unplugging the v/t pedal?

Do both Teles hum much through other amps? What were you playing through before? Millions of folks with PRRIs don't find they hum more than other amps, so if yours does...

As noted, *if* you could tote your amp to a store with another PRRI on the floor, it'd be useful to compare them there.

If both Teles do it, or if they're nice and quiet through other amps, it's not likely to be the occasional problem where the ground wire to the bridge plate isn't making contact.

If other amps and other locations hum with the Teles, does either of those guitars have Fender's conductive paint (mine is sort of pale green) in the body cavities?

If not, copper tape can be a fun project on a tele. But get the kind with the conductive adhesive. The stuff you have to solder together is an invitation for incomplete grounding. You can find good how-to's on TDPRI and YouTube.

 

[1300 E Valencia]

"I have used my Ibanez that has hum buckers, and an ESP that has hum buckers, and the hum is substantially lower to non-existent when using those guitars. So my question is, do I need to shield my telecasters or get noiseless pickups? I just can’t imagine I would have to do that. I’ve been playing guitar for over 15 years, and played through lots of amps, and never really noticed this before."

Yes, the issue is single-coils. They hum.
Yes, you just didn't notice before.

EZPZ test:
Don't point the guitar at the amp.
Stand up, and turn 90 degrees to the front of the amp. If the hum diminishes, Bingo! Single-coil hum.

 

[jhundt]

I'm sure glad that all the great rock-and-roll records were recorded in the past, when guys strapped on a Fender guitar, plugged in to an amp, and played. If they were starting out today, they'd probably never get around to playing because they'd be so busy trying to track down and eliminate any extraneous noise/hum etc.

 

[lammie200]

...I have used my Ibanez that has hum buckers, and an ESP that has hum buckers, and the hum is substantially lower to non-existent when using those guitars...

Can't ignore the fact that humbuckers work as advertised. Personally I think that since there are so many good noiseless alternatives to singles coils, I would go that route. I have Lace Holy Grails in mine. There is no reason to go back to single coils IMHO.