6 String Lap Steel Players- cool tuning!!
- Thread starter Doug 54
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tom2caster
Former Member
Interesting, I've been stuck in open E for a while and need to try something new. I'm very weak on theory, when you play all strings open what do you call the chord? Thanks.
orangeblossom
Friend of Leo's
What do you mean by country-politan? I use c6th tuning.
syrynx
Tele-Afflicted
I was interested, so I did some checking. Double Naught Spy Car is an intringuing band, and Paul Lacques is a superb player. Thanks, Doug!
Some clips:
In the Premier Guitar article, Paul Lacques calls it a D13. Though it lacks the third and ninth that usually characterize a 13th chord, I suppose that's as good a name as any; what else could one call it? Ammaj9sus4? E7sus4+?
It really doesn't look very chord-friendly to me. It doesn't include a single major or minor triad, let alone the multiple inversions of each, plus the full sixths and minor sevenths and the top three notes of major 7th and 9th chords, offered by the C6 or A6 tuning. Obviously, Paul Lacques makes it work very well. But in the four clips I linked, he plays almost exclusively single notes except in the last clip, and there aren't many chords in that one.
Some clips:
In the Premier Guitar article, Paul Lacques calls it a D13. Though it lacks the third and ninth that usually characterize a 13th chord, I suppose that's as good a name as any; what else could one call it? Ammaj9sus4? E7sus4+?
It really doesn't look very chord-friendly to me. It doesn't include a single major or minor triad, let alone the multiple inversions of each, plus the full sixths and minor sevenths and the top three notes of major 7th and 9th chords, offered by the C6 or A6 tuning. Obviously, Paul Lacques makes it work very well. But in the four clips I linked, he plays almost exclusively single notes except in the last clip, and there aren't many chords in that one.
Thanx for vid links AND pursuing this!!
I understand for the unitiated the view of limited use, but I think it has MANY possibilities.
Sun nt, my 1st time using this I was able to 'happy accident' two note and three note voicings, sometimes tiliting the bar at an angle, or of course incorporating open string(s) to get 'more'!
I think the key will be to really learn the notes and voicing up and down the neck to get at least the I, III, IV or V of the maj or min chord using two of those notes
AND... I think I am so sick of open G, E, D etc chord slide that this is a fun antidote to that.
Thanx again for the insightful reply!!
.
I understand for the unitiated the view of limited use, but I think it has MANY possibilities.
Sun nt, my 1st time using this I was able to 'happy accident' two note and three note voicings, sometimes tiliting the bar at an angle, or of course incorporating open string(s) to get 'more'!
I think the key will be to really learn the notes and voicing up and down the neck to get at least the I, III, IV or V of the maj or min chord using two of those notes
AND... I think I am so sick of open G, E, D etc chord slide that this is a fun antidote to that.
Thanx again for the insightful reply!!
.
tom2caster
Former Member
syrynx, thanks for the info on the tuning name. I tuned to it and couldn't find usable chords for a novice like me.
Play around with it. Full strums across most strings will get you in the cool country voicings, with movable positions.
Mute strings and move the bar around the neck to find another note(s). Just dont always keep the bar static.
Try 2 strings at once or 3, not necessarily all next to each other.
You may have to angle your bar forward or behind one note while the other note(s) is played to get in major or minor territory, etc.
Have FUN!!
Mute strings and move the bar around the neck to find another note(s). Just dont always keep the bar static.
Try 2 strings at once or 3, not necessarily all next to each other.
You may have to angle your bar forward or behind one note while the other note(s) is played to get in major or minor territory, etc.
Have FUN!!
thumbpick
Tele-Afflicted
sorry.. not doin it for me
syrynx
Tele-Afflicted
Gentlemen, I feel your pain! I started down this road 40 years ago with a six string, moved to a triple 8, then to pedal steel. Now I'm back to trying to wring whatever I can out of six strings and one metal finger.
There was an extensive discussion of lap steel tunings about a month ago in this very forum, including lots of videos:
Lap steel advice needed.
Other resources, mostly linked within that discussion, include:
- Brad's Page of Steel, including Common Tunings For Lap Steel Guitar.
- John Ely's Hawaiian Steel Guitar Web, which includes a PDF string gauge chart and a Tunings of the Pros page.
- Steel Guitar Forum.
I never tire of pointing out that a single set of strings can be used for many different tunings:
Code:
Str .036 .030 .024 .022 .017 .014
C6 C E G A C E
A6 C# E F# A C# E
E6 B E G# B C# E
E7 B D E G# B E
E9 B D F# G# B E
E13 B D E G# C# E
B11 B D# F# A C# E
JB* C# E G A C E
WL** C# E G A# C D**WL = William Leavitt's tuning, designed to play a wide variety of chords without slanting the bar.
If I were playing in a band, I'd probably stick with to my Fender Deluxe 8 in A6 (F#AC#EF#AC#E). But these days I'm playing solo at home, and I don't enjoy playing along to backing tracks or sequences. So I'm playing thumb-style, and want the low root and fifth for alternating bass. I keep one six-string in DADF#AD, DADFAD, or DADFAC. The other, with slightly different string gauges, I tune to FCEbFAC, with the 5th string (C) an octave lower than you'd expect. This F7 is a very powerful tuning for unaccompanied (or, more accurately, self-accompanied) steel guitar music.
You may also find TDPRI's Steel Guitar Club and The Steel Guitar Thread to be of interest.
Doug, thanks again for turning me on to Paul Lacques. Here's another southpaw lap steeler with an old Fender, Kevin Macneil Brown, who plays the instrument in C6 (strung right-handed).
syrynx
Tele-Afflicted
Doug, I hope you didn't take my remarks about A-C-D-G#-B-D not being very chord-friendly as an attempt to discourage you from pursuing the tuning! In a band context, steel players don't often play full chords anyway, and what really matters is having available the intervals which facilitate what you want to express. Obviously, Paul Lacques is very expressive with this tuning!
However, since you're considering other possibilities anyway, here are a few not mentioned previously which are compatible with the string gauges you're already using for A-C-D-G#-B-D, and only a few wrist twists away:
A-C#-E-G#-B-D#: I learned about this tuning from a SGF post by Danny Bates, who describes it as Emaj7 over Amaj7. It also has C#min7 on the middle four strings, and G#min on the top three, so it's fairly useful for chords. Danny had a YouTube video brilliantly demonstrating this tuning's capabilities in a jazz context, both for chords and single-note soloing, but sadly it's no longer available. He notes that he sometimes raises the first string to E, which yields the familiar E major on the first four strings while retaining the other chords.
A-C#-E-G#-B-D: Discussed in a SGF post by Stephen Abruzzo, this obviously is Danny Bates's tuning with the first string dropped to D. Sacrificing the major 7th in favor of the dominant 7th opens up diminished chords and the myriad possibilities of tritone substitutions, while retaining all of the chord possibilities on the lower five strings.
A-C#-E-G-B-D: This is A11, two semitones below the B11 tuning in the table in my previous post. B11 is widely used among Hawai'ian players, and is the tuning customarily used for playing two of Hawai'i-born Andy Iona's most popular songs: "How'd Ya Do," performed here in a cookin' medley by the late Billy Hew Len, not long before his death...
...and "Sand," performed (elegantly, and clearly demonstrated) in this clip by a Japanese steel player known on YouTube as butch11jp.
Lots of chords here: A on the bottom three strings, A7 on the bottom four, A9 on the bottom five, G on the first three, G6/Em7 on the first four, a diminished on 543, etc.
Each of these tunings is a stack of thirds; there's no fourth interval in any of them. These tunings occupy a middle ground between the familiar major triad tunings, all of which do include a fourth, and the customary 6th and 7th tunings, which not only eliminate the fourth but also include a major second interval.
Each of these groups of tunings has strengths and weaknesses:
Major triads (the familar open D or E, open G or A, and the less common but powerful open C)
Strengths: Lots of major chord inversions at any bar position, and no "wrong notes" as long as the bar is placed correctly and the needed chord is major. Strong bottom end, with roots and fifths available for power chords and/or alternating bass.
Weaknesses: DIfficult to achieve more than two notes of anything besides major chords, even by slanting the bar or by bending strings behind the bar. Single-note passages require more bar movement than the other tuning groups because of the presence of the fourth interval.
Stacks of thirds
Strengths: Lots of chords easily available without slants or bends, and even more are possible if these techniques are used. Good "strum" tunings. Single-note playing requres less bar movement than any triad tuning.
Weaknesses: While two major triads and two minor triads are available at any straight bar position, there's only a single inversion of each of them (R35 and Rb35). Alternating bass/power chord capability sacrificed.
Sixth tunings
Strengths: Three major triad and three minor triad inversions available at each bar position (more if slants are used). Full sixth and minor 7th chords available Minor triads substitute for major 7th and ninth chords. Fast single note work is facilitated by the presence of the major second and the absence of the fourth. Three-note rootless dominant 7th/diminished chords and augmented chords available through use of a split or hockey-stick slant. All four inversions of dominant 7th availabe by bending up the 6th behind the bar (but some are much harder to play than others).
Weaknesses: No big bottom end for alternating bass or power chords. Lacks the root of dominant 7, major 7 and ninth chords which can be played in full in some stack of thirds tunings. Time required to learn to skip the unwanted note in major and minor triads.
There are probably scores of other classes of tunings, including minor triad and seventh tunings (which I use myself), sixth tunings using standard string sets (discussed and demonstrated in this post in the "Lap steel advice needed" thread), but I'm trying not to stray too far from Paul Lacques's A-C-D-G#-B-D tuning.
Rereading the Premier Guitar article, the repeated references to "the mighty harmonic minor scale" suggest that maybe Ammaj7sus4 is a more appropriate name for the tuning as Lacques uses it in the band, since it includes five notes of the harmonic minor scale, lacking only the 5th (E) and 6th (F). It occurs to me that if it were set up as a reentrant tuning, with the A pitched between the second and third strings and the C between the first and second, it would permit very rapid execution of that portion of the scale, by alternating thumb and one finger. And if the third string were dropped to G, as I'm certain Lacques does on occasion, the same technique would enable an instant "Orange Blossom Special" on the first five notes of the G major scale.
I'm not sayin' that Paul Lacques does this. I'm not sayin' you should do this. I'm just sayin'...
However, since you're considering other possibilities anyway, here are a few not mentioned previously which are compatible with the string gauges you're already using for A-C-D-G#-B-D, and only a few wrist twists away:
A-C#-E-G#-B-D#: I learned about this tuning from a SGF post by Danny Bates, who describes it as Emaj7 over Amaj7. It also has C#min7 on the middle four strings, and G#min on the top three, so it's fairly useful for chords. Danny had a YouTube video brilliantly demonstrating this tuning's capabilities in a jazz context, both for chords and single-note soloing, but sadly it's no longer available. He notes that he sometimes raises the first string to E, which yields the familiar E major on the first four strings while retaining the other chords.
A-C#-E-G#-B-D: Discussed in a SGF post by Stephen Abruzzo, this obviously is Danny Bates's tuning with the first string dropped to D. Sacrificing the major 7th in favor of the dominant 7th opens up diminished chords and the myriad possibilities of tritone substitutions, while retaining all of the chord possibilities on the lower five strings.
A-C#-E-G-B-D: This is A11, two semitones below the B11 tuning in the table in my previous post. B11 is widely used among Hawai'ian players, and is the tuning customarily used for playing two of Hawai'i-born Andy Iona's most popular songs: "How'd Ya Do," performed here in a cookin' medley by the late Billy Hew Len, not long before his death...
...and "Sand," performed (elegantly, and clearly demonstrated) in this clip by a Japanese steel player known on YouTube as butch11jp.
Lots of chords here: A on the bottom three strings, A7 on the bottom four, A9 on the bottom five, G on the first three, G6/Em7 on the first four, a diminished on 543, etc.
Each of these tunings is a stack of thirds; there's no fourth interval in any of them. These tunings occupy a middle ground between the familiar major triad tunings, all of which do include a fourth, and the customary 6th and 7th tunings, which not only eliminate the fourth but also include a major second interval.
Each of these groups of tunings has strengths and weaknesses:
Major triads (the familar open D or E, open G or A, and the less common but powerful open C)
Strengths: Lots of major chord inversions at any bar position, and no "wrong notes" as long as the bar is placed correctly and the needed chord is major. Strong bottom end, with roots and fifths available for power chords and/or alternating bass.
Weaknesses: DIfficult to achieve more than two notes of anything besides major chords, even by slanting the bar or by bending strings behind the bar. Single-note passages require more bar movement than the other tuning groups because of the presence of the fourth interval.
Stacks of thirds
Strengths: Lots of chords easily available without slants or bends, and even more are possible if these techniques are used. Good "strum" tunings. Single-note playing requres less bar movement than any triad tuning.
Weaknesses: While two major triads and two minor triads are available at any straight bar position, there's only a single inversion of each of them (R35 and Rb35). Alternating bass/power chord capability sacrificed.
Sixth tunings
Strengths: Three major triad and three minor triad inversions available at each bar position (more if slants are used). Full sixth and minor 7th chords available Minor triads substitute for major 7th and ninth chords. Fast single note work is facilitated by the presence of the major second and the absence of the fourth. Three-note rootless dominant 7th/diminished chords and augmented chords available through use of a split or hockey-stick slant. All four inversions of dominant 7th availabe by bending up the 6th behind the bar (but some are much harder to play than others).
Weaknesses: No big bottom end for alternating bass or power chords. Lacks the root of dominant 7, major 7 and ninth chords which can be played in full in some stack of thirds tunings. Time required to learn to skip the unwanted note in major and minor triads.
There are probably scores of other classes of tunings, including minor triad and seventh tunings (which I use myself), sixth tunings using standard string sets (discussed and demonstrated in this post in the "Lap steel advice needed" thread), but I'm trying not to stray too far from Paul Lacques's A-C-D-G#-B-D tuning.
Rereading the Premier Guitar article, the repeated references to "the mighty harmonic minor scale" suggest that maybe Ammaj7sus4 is a more appropriate name for the tuning as Lacques uses it in the band, since it includes five notes of the harmonic minor scale, lacking only the 5th (E) and 6th (F). It occurs to me that if it were set up as a reentrant tuning, with the A pitched between the second and third strings and the C between the first and second, it would permit very rapid execution of that portion of the scale, by alternating thumb and one finger. And if the third string were dropped to G, as I'm certain Lacques does on occasion, the same technique would enable an instant "Orange Blossom Special" on the first five notes of the G major scale.
I'm not sayin' that Paul Lacques does this. I'm not sayin' you should do this. I'm just sayin'...
