6 piece saddle hex screws question

Supertwang

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Certain individuals get quite militant in their opinion in this, staring that it is very very bad to have those saddles tilted.
Three saddle Tele bridges are bad, very bad.

If your guitar has problems wih saddles tilted a bit?
Straighten them out.
If no problem, then no problem.

G&L puts a set screw in the side of some bridges allowing you to clamp them all together side to side. Those must be level.
Yeah, definitely lots of militants out there in their opinion on guitars, cars, bikes,....and especially guns and politics. With 6-pack saddles I'm in the camp of trying to keep each individual saddle level with the fretboard but following the overall fretboard radius. With 3-saddle Teles the saddle height screws pull double duty as they also set the string/saddle radius. But I LOVE 3-saddle Teles,...wouldn't have them any other way.
 
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bigbenbob

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This may be a very dumb question and I searched and found some info but not quite what i was looking for. Sorry if this has been covered (I'm guessing it probably has) but for 6 piece saddles, is even height for the hex screws on both sides of any given string piece always the goal, or do asymmetrical heights (one higher/lower) provide some adjustment benefit? If so, can someone please explain what benefit and summarize best practices on adjustments?

I read that they should be even, but mine are not usually. Once I get the string length and height where the guitar intonates and plays how I want, i always find myself make a bunch of little adjustments and they never end up even. I got tired of trial and error and not really knowing so I figured I ask.

To rephrase, my question is not how or why to adjust, or anything about differences between strings, it's for one string, should it be even height on both sides or is uneven height an adjustment feature of some kind?
There's no mechanical reason why they should be at different heights. Other commenters have referred to leaning saddles having a tendency to walk or not fit in a crowded space. In a perfect world, they should be perfectly even. In a good world, they should be close. There's no good reason why one can't set them to be about the same height.
 

mister2

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Rereading your OP, I feel similarly. I tend to prove the pudding by eating. If the action is where I want it to be, and there is no buzz or weird harmonics coming from the bridge (there are many other places buzz can come from) and,.... I can palm mute without the screw tops turning my hand into hamburger, I'm happy. Unless I'm in my home shop, getting all 3 isn't always that easy. Perfectly level saddles are nice but not as important. To me.

Over time, all kinds of mods and cockamamie ideas have me adding and removing neck shims, trying new and pickups, maximizing pickup distance, etc.; all of which may require substituting Allen screws with different heights. So, I'll go by my first sentence as my guide and find the right length screws once the gig/experiment is done.

Bottom line: they come out fairly level.

PS. depending on the trem maker, S-type 6-saddle trem plates may have grooves already machined into the plate to keep the two Es from walking. Not so for any offset bodies I've seen, so far.
 
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Ronkirn

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IF you are replacing the screws.. which is not a bad idea... note the tips.. some screws have a cupped end, some a sharp tip, some flat and some rounded (oval) ... and some have a mystery tip after some adventurous novice ground 'em down... with something designed for ripping through concrete and rebar... :eek:

You want the rounded ends... available from McMaster Carr... I won't bore ya with why... just do it... https://www.mcmaster.com/socket-set-screws/tip-type~oval/
 

brenn

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On a 6 saddle tele, I'd keep them even, but what really matters is equal tension on both screws. It's a much bigger deal on a Jazzmaster, but you will get buzz on any saddle with 2 screws if one screw is holding up the string and the other is barely touching the bridge.
 

SJerseyDevil

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This may be a very dumb question and I searched and found some info but not quite what i was looking for. Sorry if this has been covered (I'm guessing it probably has) but for 6 piece saddles, is even height for the hex screws on both sides of any given string piece always the goal, or do asymmetrical heights (one higher/lower) provide some adjustment benefit? If so, can someone please explain what benefit and summarize best practices on adjustments?

I read that they should be even, but mine are not usually. Once I get the string length and height where the guitar intonates and plays how I want, i always find myself make a bunch of little adjustments and they never end up even. I got tired of trial and error and not really knowing so I figured I ask.

To rephrase, my question is not how or why to adjust, or anything about differences between strings, it's for one string, should it be even height on both sides or is uneven height an adjustment feature of some kind?
Height should somewhat match the curvature of the fretboard.
.
 

ETMusic777

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This may be a very dumb question and I searched and found some info but not quite what i was looking for. Sorry if this has been covered (I'm guessing it probably has) but for 6 piece saddles, is even height for the hex screws on both sides of any given string piece always the goal, or do asymmetrical heights (one higher/lower) provide some adjustment benefit? If so, can someone please explain what benefit and summarize best practices on adjustments?

I read that they should be even, but mine are not usually. Once I get the string length and height where the guitar intonates and plays how I want, i always find myself make a bunch of little adjustments and they never end up even. I got tired of trial and error and not really knowing so I figured I ask.

To rephrase, my question is not how or why to adjust, or anything about differences between strings, it's for one string, should it be even height on both sides or is uneven height an adjustment feature of some kind?

This is a good question and very relevant to my current situation, and I hope that I can piggy back off of this question, to add my own questions.

I recently bought the 1994 American Standard in the photo below. I've been doing some reconditioning on it, touching up a couple of dings, replacing these "noiseless" pickups with Fender Vintage 64 Pickups (which are awesome). Yesterday I was doing a setup, and some of the hex nuts on the original bridge are "stripped" and they were all rusty. For some reason, there is a certain amount of rust on this guitar, on those hex nuts, as well as the cavity screws, switch etc. It came from Houston, so maybe it was the humidity that did it. The saddle on the D string is "stripped" and its impossible to turn the hex nuts either way. The hole is too big for the hex wrench, and too small for the next size up hex wrench. Also, there is rust which I tried to clean but its still there.

Id like to replace this bridge, with a better bridge but still have the 6 saddle adjustments. I like the older vintage "ashtray" style with the edges on the sides. Can anyone recommend a good one? Does Fender make a vintage style bridge that has 6 saddles?
 

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redhouse_ca

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This is a good question and very relevant to my current situation, and I hope that I can piggy back off of this question, to add my own questions.

I recently bought the 1994 American Standard in the photo below. I've been doing some reconditioning on it, touching up a couple of dings, replacing these "noiseless" pickups with Fender Vintage 64 Pickups (which are awesome). Yesterday I was doing a setup, and some of the hex nuts on the original bridge are "stripped" and they were all rusty. For some reason, there is a certain amount of rust on this guitar, on those hex nuts, as well as the cavity screws, switch etc. It came from Houston, so maybe it was the humidity that did it. The saddle on the D string is "stripped" and its impossible to turn the hex nuts either way. The hole is too big for the hex wrench, and too small for the next size up hex wrench. Also, there is rust which I tried to clean but its still there.

Id like to replace this bridge, with a better bridge but still have the 6 saddle adjustments. I like the older vintage "ashtray" style with the edges on the sides. Can anyone recommend a good one? Does Fender make a vintage style bridge that has 6 saddles?
Hi, others can make better bridge recommendations than I can but I wanted to throw a couple thing out there to maybe consider. I'm pretty sure I have the same bridge as you on one guitar. I also had a couple of rust issues, but I didn't replace the bridge plate or the 2xscrew block thingys supporting the strings (what are those called?), just a couple of hex screws and it's fine now. Maybe consider that, it wasn't very expensive and def cheaper than replacing the plate and all the parts. Second thing is i has a few problems with stripping and at first thought the screws were stripped but realized it was the hex wrench that was stripped (or whatever those are called, allen wrench)? It was annoying, I used both ends of the wrench over time and the screws stripped both ends. It was/is an el cheapo wrench, and this is over maybe 25 year period, but I am pretty carful not to force anything unnaturally, it just seemed to happen, and only on that guitar. I'm prolly gonna get flamed for saying this (flamers gonna flame :), enjoy fellas), but when it first happened, I didn't want to wait til the next day to get a new hex wrench so I used a bolt cutters and cut off just a bit at the end, an amount a bit longer than the max depth the hex screw soctet and voila, unstripped hex wrench. I call it my mechanical pencil hex wrench. If the end wears down, one snip (and maybe a bit of filing to clean it up - never had to but it might do the job), and it's a shorter, but a clean, unstripped hex (I used a magnifying glass to double check - it was surprising how clean the cut was).

So besides that point (pun intended), maybe double check if it's the screws or the wrench that's stripped.

Finally, the hex nuts I got are double sided (each side has a female hex slot). You may be able tie just just soak the rusted/stripped ones in a solvent, clean em up, and get back to playing.

Just some ideas (born of a low income family background). Scarcity is the mother of invention :)
 
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T Prior

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In many discussion regarding setup and saddles, buzzing or string vibration is mentioned. This many times CAN be a result of NECK relief being off by just a tad. Sometimes adding or removing some neck relief or even loosening the 4 neck screws and shifting the neck ever so slightly , may solve a few mysterious issues which we think are caused by saddle adjustments .

Not saying this is the case, but in general, there are some instrument's where the "fit of all the parts" doesn't allow for a 100% setup. I happen to have a 2011 Squire CV 60's which has an inherent open string BUZZ which is related to neck joint and relief, heck maybe even the neck itself. This one requires compromise setting it up with 9's compared to my workhorse Tele's.

Many times we are under the impression that every guitar we own is equal and can be setup the same as another. I believe this is like Horse Shoes, close counts !

Keep an open mind ! :)
 
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msalama

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You can try slanting them if you want to spread the strings outwards a bit, but that may also result in buzzing. Try if you're curious.
 

JustABluesGuy

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Yeah, definitely lots of militants out there in their opinion on guitars, cars, bikes,....and especially guns and politics. With 6-pack saddles I'm in the camp of trying to keep each individual saddle level with the fretboard but following the overall fretboard radius. With 3-saddle Teles the saddle height screws pull double duty as they also set the string/saddle radius. But I LOVE 3-saddle Teles,...wouldn't have them any other way.
Yeah, my Tele barrel saddles are tilted, but not the ones on my Strats. I’ve had issues that were caused by one screw not making good contact with the bridge.
 

robinrockus

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This may be a very dumb question and I searched and found some info but not quite what i was looking for. Sorry if this has been covered (I'm guessing it probably has) but for 6 piece saddles, is even height for the hex screws on both sides of any given string piece always the goal, or do asymmetrical heights (one higher/lower) provide some adjustment benefit? If so, can someone please explain what benefit and summarize best practices on adjustments?

I read that they should be even, but mine are not usually. Once I get the string length and height where the guitar intonates and plays how I want, i always find myself make a bunch of little adjustments and they never end up even. I got tired of trial and error and not really knowing so I figured I ask.

To rephrase, my question is not how or why to adjust, or anything about differences between strings, it's for one string, should it be even height on both sides or is uneven height an adjustment feature of some kind?
Fender neck curvature, intonation and string heights, all go together, and vary by string gauge. That is, a thicker gauge set can be closer to the frets without string buzz than lighter gauge. If you’re away from the fretboard, that raises the note, so you have to adjust the intonation/ string length accordingly. There’s always a sweet spot, where you’re as close to the fretboard as possible (without fret buzz). So set your neck properly first (slight bow to the middle, or negative curvature).Then one string at a time set string height and length (intonation). Then go back and check again for matching. Check harmonic notes vs. fretted notes at different positions, and check string to string matching octave notes. And yes, the saddles should have a slight curvature that matches the neck, high E, B, and G should have a slight curve or drop to the treble side (towards high side) and low strings D, A, and E should slope towards the bass or low side. So it looks like small hill in the center. This of course can vary from guitar to guitar. Even on a good acoustic guitar, the bridge curvature matches the neck, generally. If you have it right, it will stay in tune and sound better. Good luck!
 

dax44

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Thanks, you hit on exactly what I was asking. I've had the latter situation, as others have posted, the little nudge can be helpful Could you explain the compensation part a bit more? if there is some small compensation benefit, I may have stumbled on it to remedy some small issue in alignment and just not known it. I shoot for even, but as stated, when fine tuning after set up I sometimes end up uneven here or there, but I don't quite understand why (I mean, the tweak gets it how I want it, so I know "why" I'm making the adjustment, just not what it might be compensating for). Thank you!
You angle saddles they will be under vector forces from the strings and move slightly unless restricted by grooves on the bridge plate. If the are angled to follow the radius they snug up together. If flat they maintain their 10 thou gaps roughly - whether that causes rattle would have to be tested by trial and error
 

dax44

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Fender neck curvature, intonation and string heights, all go together, and vary by string gauge. That is, a thicker gauge set can be closer to the frets without string buzz than lighter gauge. If you’re away from the fretboard, that raises the note, so you have to adjust the intonation/ string length accordingly. There’s always a sweet spot, where you’re as close to the fretboard as possible (without fret buzz). So set your neck properly first (slight bow to the middle, or negative curvature).Then one string at a time set string height and length (intonation). Then go back and check again for matching. Check harmonic notes vs. fretted notes at different positions, and check string to string matching octave notes. And yes, the saddles should have a slight curvature that matches the neck, high E, B, and G should have a slight curve or drop to the treble side (towards high side) and low strings D, A, and E should slope towards the bass or low side. So it looks like small hill in the center. This of course can vary from guitar to guitar. Even on a good acoustic guitar, the bridge curvature matches the neck, generally. If you have it right, it will stay in tune and sound better. Good luck!
But acoustic guitars don’t have separate saddles that can shuffle about. They are curved because stepped up and then down would be odd.
 

TeleRooo

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Your strings should approximate the radius of the fretboard, but the individual saddles should be level and parallel to the front of the guitar body.

The saddles should stair step higher in the middle and lower on the outside, but each saddle should be level.

It might not be an issue if some are slightly angled, but there’s no reason to do so, and it can cause problems, so I keep mine level. OMMV.
JustABluesGuy, Well put brother. "Your strings should approximate the radius of the fretboard," on the end where it is closest to the bridge, for compound radius fretboards. "but the individual saddles should be level and parallel to the front of the guitar body." Common sense folks.......JMHO, but it has always worked for me....
 

reedrainey

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This may be a very dumb question and I searched and found some info but not quite what i was looking for. Sorry if this has been covered (I'm guessing it probably has) but for 6 piece saddles, is even height for the hex screws on both sides of any given string piece always the goal, or do asymmetrical heights (one higher/lower) provide some adjustment benefit? If so, can someone please explain what benefit and summarize best practices on adjustments?

I read that they should be even, but mine are not usually. Once I get the string length and height where the guitar intonates and plays how I want, i always find myself make a bunch of little adjustments and they never end up even. I got tired of trial and error and not really knowing so I figured I ask.

To rephrase, my question is not how or why to adjust, or anything about differences between strings, it's for one string, should it be even height on both sides or is uneven height an adjustment feature of some kind?
Hi,
I use a radius gauge to make my strings' saddles follow the fretboard curve. But it is not a smooth curve; it is more like a rice-paddy stair-step design. The point of this is to make each border of a saddle to parallel the guitar surface, i.e. you don't want to have one side lower than the other, as it would make it more likely that the string might jump the saddle on the low side. At least that's my rationale. Under hard strumming and using lower tension strings, this might become a problem. If this is not what you are asking about, please re-phrase and I will reply. It makes no sense to me to have the saddles approximate a flat surface, else it would ignore the relevant fretboard radius.
 

redhouse_ca

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Hi,
I use a radius gauge to make my strings' saddles follow the fretboard curve. But it is not a smooth curve; it is more like a rice-paddy stair-step design. The point of this is to make each border of a saddle to parallel the guitar surface, i.e. you don't want to have one side lower than the other, as it would make it more likely that the string might jump the saddle on the low side. At least that's my rationale. Under hard strumming and using lower tension strings, this might become a problem. If this is not what you are asking about, please re-phrase and I will reply. It makes no sense to me to have the saddles approximate a flat surface, else it would ignore the relevant fretboard radius.
Makes sence.
 

Chetter

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At a price, one can always replace saddles with Babicz full contact saddles. One screw to adjust Ecam height, another to lock, full contact saddle to bridge plate with pressure distributed evenly, no poking adjustment screws.
 
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