1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

5G9, 6g3, or 1974 build?

Discussion in 'Glowing Bottle Tube Amp Forum' started by JamesAM, Jul 9, 2020.

  1. JamesAM

    JamesAM Tele-Meister

    Age:
    35
    Posts:
    315
    Joined:
    May 13, 2020
    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    Hey guys! I’m looking at possibly starting a new build, and I’ve narrowed it down to these three amps. All are 1x12”, all are under 20w, and all have a tremolo channel.

    I’m currently running a vox ac15hw and a 5e3 in stereo through a radial big shot with no other effects. I almost dime both and use my guitar volume for dynamic changes. The vox gives me high end, and the 5e3 gives me lower mids. It’s a great combo for the Americana/rock stuff I play- Closest reference would be the hold steady/tad kubler sound.

    I’m looking at maybe moving the vox and running either a tremolux, Marshall 18w, or brown deluxe in tandem with the 5e3 for a bit more drive. Here’s what I’m wondering:

    - for sound, which do you think would be the best complement for the 5e3?

    - which would get me closer to my goal of a bit more drive/crunch?

    - which is the most fun to build? I would likely be sourcing parts as opposed to building from a kit.

    thanks!
     
  2. ReverendRevolver

    ReverendRevolver Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,869
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2019
    Location:
    Ohio (Nerk)
    I'm not a builder, but I do play amps I can't afford in stores frequently, and fall into deep rabbit holes of research periodically;

    Any 15w brown or tweed can theoretically give more crunch with a less efficient speaker. I can't say it's the kind you're looking for though.

    Which tremelux were you looking at? I have 0 knowledge of the el84 one. The bigger ones will have more headroom, when they upped the wattage.

    The Marshall will fill out your mids nicely with the 5e3.

    A brown deluxe has tremelo circuit, right? It doesn't sound tweed or blackface, but it's a specific thing, and folks love those tremelo sounds.

    What end of the sonic spectrum do you want to occupy more of?

    Lastly, I'm terrified of anything that can electrocute me like the insides of an amp, so I cannot speak to the "fun" of anything.

    Hopefully someone with more knowledge jumps in.

    Lotta people asking about stereo rigs today.....
     
    JamesAM likes this.
  3. JamesAM

    JamesAM Tele-Meister

    Age:
    35
    Posts:
    315
    Joined:
    May 13, 2020
    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    Thanks! Yeah I picked these specific ones because they’re basically 3 different ways at arriving at the same amp. I was hoping to see where they all might fall soundwise compared to the vox they would replace. And I really like where the vox sits in the mix, especially with the 5e3- I just wish it was a bit meaner.

    - the tremolux I’m looking at is the 5g9 tweed circuit. It’s fixed bias and bigger cab, so I’m hoping to get more of a sweet bassman crunch from it. As far as I know, it uses 2 6v6s. It’s also not very gain-heavy, from the limited demos I can find, so I think this might not be the one I’m after.

    - I’m hoping to get something similar to the vox with just a bit more “roar”- I’m leaning more towards the Marshall, but worry that it doesn’t have the highs to cut through the mix like the vox.

    - The brown deluxe is extremely intriguing to me because I think it has the Marshall roar with more bite, but I can’t say for sure because I’ve never played one :(
     
  4. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    14,016
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    Location:
    northwest
    1 x 12 Brown Vibrolux maybe? Not 6V6 so adds the 6L6 sound to your combination without too much wattage...?
    Otherwise, probably the Brown Deluxe.
     
    Jakedog likes this.
  5. David Barnett

    David Barnett Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    64
    Posts:
    14,238
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    The Far-Flung Isles of Langerhans
    The 1974 is a fun amp. I built one back in 2005 and liked it a lot. It's in pieces right now 'cause I wanted to upgrade a few things and never got around to reassembling it.

    I've also got a 6G3, or rather a pile of unassembled parts in boxes that will someday be a 6G3.

    As for deciding between those two or a 5G9, the Marshall and the Deluxe are both more aggressive than the Tremolux. Marshall and Deluxe are sort of British or American flavors of the same kind of thing, they have great cleans from 0 - 3 but will go full-on crunchy when you turn 'em up.

    So flip a coin, or build all three.
     
  6. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    13,421
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Location:
    Snellman MN
    Did a 1974 build about ten years ago, just not my cup of tea at all. At some point I'm going to hog out some tube holes and make a 6g3 out of it.
    Everyone thinks they're a small Marshall but really they have little in common with the big four holers. They were a copy of a Watkins amp if I remember right, the classic Marshalls started out as copies of the 5F6 Fender Bassman.
     
    trancedental likes this.
  7. Alex W

    Alex W Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,405
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2003
    Location:
    In my tube amp coccoon.
    - for sound, which do you think would be the best complement for the 5e3? My personal take is that I would be looking for something with a cleaner sound to complement the 5E3, which has plenty of breakup. But you said you were looking for more crunch so I am not sure what to say here exactly.

    - which would get me closer to my goal of a bit more drive/crunch? I actually have a vintage 6G3 and I love it, yet I would answer Marshall 18W here. When I think of that ultimate crunchy sound, I think of a humbucker equipped guitar like a Les Paul or SG into a Marshall amp. Obviously a brown Deluxe is no slouch either.

    - which is the most fun to build? I would likely be sourcing parts as opposed to building from a kit. No idea.
     
    JamesAM likes this.
  8. David Barnett

    David Barnett Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    64
    Posts:
    14,238
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    The Far-Flung Isles of Langerhans
    The 1974 is more "jangly" than a 4-holer, with its EL84 outputs, and with no tone stack it's more "middy", but through an appropriate Celestion speaker it's still got a Marshall-y glare when you crank it. I could get mine into some pretty good Paul Kossoff territory.

    Yeah the circuit is a crib from the WEM Dominator amp. But Marshall built 'em with RS transformers, and the same caps and resistors as the big amps, so there's still some family resemblance.
     
    bblumentritt and JamesAM like this.
  9. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    22,416
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Location:
    Detroit
    Brown deluxe is LOUD when hitting crunch time depending on speaker.

    Yes, it is Marshall-y - when it’s even louder than that.
     
    Alex W and JamesAM like this.
  10. JamesAM

    JamesAM Tele-Meister

    Age:
    35
    Posts:
    315
    Joined:
    May 13, 2020
    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    That’s great- I’ve got a Weber minimass that I’m really happy with, so I can use that to get the volume level even with the quieter 5e3. I’ve been using the MV on the AC15, and it’s worked pretty well.

    Would the brown deluxe sound good paired with a 5e3 in stereo, or would it be redundant? Do you think theyd be too similar?
     
  11. David Barnett

    David Barnett Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    64
    Posts:
    14,238
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    The Far-Flung Isles of Langerhans
    A lot would depend on what speaker you have in the 5E3, and what speaker you choose for the 2nd amp.
     
    bblumentritt likes this.
  12. JamesAM

    JamesAM Tele-Meister

    Age:
    35
    Posts:
    315
    Joined:
    May 13, 2020
    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    Ahhh Great point! I’ve got a vintage 52 or 62 p12n from an old organ in the 5e3. The ac15 has a greenback- the Marshall build would have one as well.

    I’d probably go with a Weber Jensen clone like a 12a25 or 12a50 for a 6g3- I’ve heard mixed reviews about the Jensen reissues.
     
  13. pedro58

    pedro58 Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    121
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Location:
    North Texas
    I had a Brown Deluxe and an 18W at the same time years ago. The speaker on the Deluxe had deteriorated to the point where it had to be reconed/replaced. I had it reconed by a pro, but it didn't sound the same. I didn't expect it to. Anyway, I went through quite a few speakers to try and recapture the magic of the original Oxford 12". I pummeled the recone to get it to break in, and so on... The 18W I paired with a Scumback 12 (Copy of vintage Greenback). One day, I decided to run the Deluxe and the 18W through the same speakers (not at the same time!) for a comparison. Long story, short: once things got crunchy, there was little or no difference. The trem on the Deluxe was better, IMO. If I were you, I'd pick my speaker first, and then work my way backwards. And the Fender/Jensen/Oxford clones sounded terrible to my ears in the Deluxe. Go with a Celestion flavor.
     
    Alex W and JamesAM like this.
  14. D'tar

    D'tar Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,330
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Location:
    WNY
  15. JamesAM

    JamesAM Tele-Meister

    Age:
    35
    Posts:
    315
    Joined:
    May 13, 2020
    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    this thread was what made me include the 5G9 in this list. King fan’s build sounds incredible. I’m wondering if one would be aggressive enough- I think the ac15 with greenback has more breakup, but the 5g9 sweetness just can’t be replicated.
     
    D'tar likes this.
  16. D'tar

    D'tar Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,330
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Location:
    WNY
    If only we can get @King Fan to crank it up a bit!!! :)
     
  17. King Fan

    King Fan Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    6,153
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Location:
    Salt Lake City
    Heh, IME the 5G9 is no crunch machine. It has tons of what I call 'tweed OD', all cello and french horn, sweetness for sure, sweet and sexy, not raunchy. Some of the same tweed OD as a Deluxe, but without the 5e3's many so-charming 'OD artifacts.' I'm hesitant to suggest it for a target I don't aim for -- more crunch when played in stereo with a 5E3? That's not an area I know.

    James mentioned aggressive? I haven't played a 6G3, but from everything I know I'd head in that direction -- at least if I had a clue about where we were going. :)
     
    JamesAM likes this.
  18. D'tar

    D'tar Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,330
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Location:
    WNY
    I must admit... I saw 5g9 and thought of KF. Injecting personal taste here a 5e3 and a 5g9 with an a/b/y pedal may be a wonderful thing. Not necessarily what jamesam is after though.
     
    JamesAM likes this.
  19. David Barnett

    David Barnett Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    64
    Posts:
    14,238
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    The Far-Flung Isles of Langerhans
    That may be why I liked my 18W so much, I had (have) a Celestion G12H30 in it, an Avatar Hellatone. I've tried my black Deluxe-Amp through that speaker too, and it's pretty impressive.

    I speak in the past tense because while I still have the amp, it's in pieces at the moment.
     
    pedro58 and JamesAM like this.
  20. JamesAM

    JamesAM Tele-Meister

    Age:
    35
    Posts:
    315
    Joined:
    May 13, 2020
    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    Thanks for all the feedback guys. I’m basically looking for something that will give me a plexi-ish sound in a smaller package- the vox/greenback is close with the deluxe in stereo, but I’m wondering if something a bit more gnarly will get me a rounder sound with more roar. I’ve got a feeling it’ll be the 6g3 based on videos I’ve seen.

    I’ve seen the Marshall sv-20, which appears to be exactly what I’m after, but I’m not really into paying that price for a pcb amp when I could build my own for much less.

    I play the deluxe with the channels jumpered, both volumes on 11, and tone dimed. The vox is on the top boost channel with the gain almost dimed and MV set to meet the 5e3’s volume. I’m thinking a dimed brown deluxe will get me where I want to be, unless anyone knows of an EL-34 circuit that’s under 20 watts.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.