5f4 / 5e7 build

Discussion in 'Shock Brother's DIY Amps' started by theprofessor, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. tubeswell

    tubeswell Friend of Leo's

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    Unsoldered or cold joints will make it crackle and pop for sure.

    Immaculate looking build
     
  2. theprofessor

    theprofessor Friend of Leo's

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    Sure thing, Axis! Sound sample coming this weekend. Maybe today. I'll see if I can do a few different types.
     
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  3. theprofessor

    theprofessor Friend of Leo's

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    Thank you, tubeswell! That means a lot coming from you!
     
  4. Uncle Daddy

    Uncle Daddy Tele-Holic

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    I missed what speakers you are using.
     
  5. CapnCrunch

    CapnCrunch Friend of Leo's

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    The 5e5a,5f4,and 5e7 amps are wonderful, aren't they? I sold my 5e3, which was my first build, not long after I realized that I just was not going to be playing it because the Pro was soooo much more amp. I built a 2x10 baffle and have been playing with that speaker configuration also. It is an interesting difference for sure.

    Your amp looks great! Enjoy it.
     
  6. theprofessor

    theprofessor Friend of Leo's

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    To my great surprise, I'm using a pair of "Jensen reissue" P10R's. I got the pair for a really good price, and they've already been broken in. They sound great, and I have no plans to change them.

    Thanks! Yes, the whole Super/Pro/Bandmaster family is wonderful. I also have a 5e3 that is jealous right now. The 5E7 and 5F4 really hit the sweet spot for me in terms of clarity and the EQ that I like quite often.
     
  7. CapnCrunch

    CapnCrunch Friend of Leo's

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    To me this circuit with two tens is almost more like a Brown era amp than a tweed. It is focused, and has a pretty flat response compared to what you expect for a tweed. I love the circuit with a 15, but it is very much a "tweed" amp with the 15. With the tens, it has more head room, it is more focused, and stiffer, and feels more like the brown and black and amps. Not saying it is a black amp, just that it feels more like the later era amps than the other tweeds I've played. Maybe the tweed twin and Bassman feel that way too, I don't know, since I've not played those.
     
  8. Snfoilhat

    Snfoilhat Tele-Afflicted

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    This conversation has moved right toward a question I have been hoping to ask. How would you characterize the tone stack? I hear you when you remind us that EQ is also shaped by the speaker(s), but in general, is the Super/Bandmaster scooped? Flat? Mid-humped? I don't think I've ever seen a model (like Duncan Tone Stack Calculator) or a plot or anything for the amps that share this particular treble and bass control and I'm curious how y'all would describe it across the sweep or when set in the middle or however you find yourself using it.

    Thanks!
     
  9. theprofessor

    theprofessor Friend of Leo's

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    I don't think I can answer the question in a technical sense, only in a layman's sense that accords with my limited experience. This amp is clearer and cleaner than any tweed I've heard. It's treble-focused and thinner on bass. I use it mostly in the Normal channel, but if you use the Bright channel with a bright guitar like a Tele or Strat, you can get this thin trebly sheen that's really great. It lacks body, but is remarkably articulate.

    I played the 5f4 last night right after I played my 6g2. The 6g2, of course, is a different amp, and it's running at much lower voltages than the 5f4 (my 6g2 runs just under 300V, I think, whereas my 5f4 runs at around 400V), but the 5f4 is clearer and even less middy than the 6g2.

    I hope the sound samples I post in a bit will be helpful in this respect. But here's an example of the trebly sheen that you can get from a 5E7 (and from the Bright channel of a 5f4). And this video is of a Fender "reissue," which uses a 12ax7 in V1 and runs at about 450V. I use a 12ay7 in V1, and my amp runs at about 400V. And of course my amp is different, in that I don't get the impedance mis-match to 2.67R with a 4R output transformer with three speakers that the 5e7 does.

     
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  10. theprofessor

    theprofessor Friend of Leo's

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    I completely agree with your assessment from my experience so far. And I do have a 5e3, a 6g2, and a SF Deluxe Reverb to compare. I think you've nailed it.
     
  11. Uncle Daddy

    Uncle Daddy Tele-Holic

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    My 2x10 Super sounds pretty similar in that it has the same NFR as the Bandmaster, and is running through a pair of P10Rs. The tone controls are very responsive, and both add gain in quite a significant way. Like most tweed amps it loves a telecaster, and is a bit less enthusiastic about warmer pickups.
     
  12. CapnCrunch

    CapnCrunch Friend of Leo's

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    I'll say this with the following caveat, my amp started as a 5e5a so less NFB than a true 5f4 or 5e7. I only deviated from the original schematic/layout by adding a pot to make the fixed bias adjustable. I also used a larger Heyboer output transformer so there is a little more low end on tap. Equipped with an original 50's P15N, this amp is stellar with any guitar in the bright channel. It has tons of low end and mids are out front, and the high end is there but softened. It's a little loose (though no where near as loose as a 5e3) and it breaks up pretty early in a really delicious sort of way. It screams early blues and jump blues and at lower volumes it has one of the most beautiful clean tones of any amp I've ever heard.

    With tens, it has more head room, it is much more focused and aggressive, and I find that the lows, mids, and highs are all there in pretty equal measures ( to my ear that means there is less low end, the same mids, and more high end, than the 15). I find I prefer the normal channel with tens. In the bright channel, it is very bright, but in the normal channel, it is pretty flat. When pushed into overdrive, it is muscular, focused and aggressive. Kind of JTM 45/Bassman in OD quality. It is pretty dang loud at that point however.

    Because of the volume, I'm getting ready to add a bias switch to the amp so that I can switch between fixed and cathode bias. My hope is to get a more traditional tweed feel from the amp and OD at lower volume. We'll see. One of the things that I love is that this amp with tens is capable of sounding great in any genre of music. I can't say that about some other tweed circuits I've played.

    Both the bass and treble have a very noticeable and effective sweep and they do significantly effect gain. I've been able to effectively eq the amp for any of my guitars and I've played it with a LP with Lollar PAF's, vintage Strat Singles, SD rails, TV Jones Filtertrons, and traditional Tele singles and a vintage LP with p90's. My favorite of the whole bunch right now is the ceramic SD rails. The amp just roars with them, but you can dial it in to sound great with any of the pup's I've tried. The p90's sound really magical with the amp also, just noisy.
     
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  13. theprofessor

    theprofessor Friend of Leo's

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    OK, here's a sound clip. I worked a long time to get a few other things, including different loops and dub-overs, but without success in getting the sound I was looking for. I find it very hard to capture the tonality of an amp with my equipment, at least. I almost always pull the SM-57 after listening to some things I recorded with it. It compresses the sound a bit and adds midrange and just doesn't sound natural to me. So I just said to heck with it and recorded something quite un-sexy that actually gives you a sense of the tonality of the amp.

    Maybe I should just take requests of the kinds of things that people want to hear a 5f4 tweed Super do, and how it reacts when it does it...

    I'll see if I can get inspired and do a few more tomorrow.

    So here's the description on this one:

    5f4 tweed Super with 2x10" Jensen reissue P10R speakers. Alder-bodied Telecaster using only neck pickup (42 AWG Cavalier Lion King). Into Hi Normal channel on amp, volume on 8, treble on 6, bass on about 3, presence at 11. Through Surfy Bear reverb unit into amp, then recorded straight to mini SD on a Zoom H2N recorder. No effects added.

     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  14. tubeswell

    tubeswell Friend of Leo's

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    Sweet sounds
     
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  15. CapnCrunch

    CapnCrunch Friend of Leo's

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    That sounds great, and the reverb is really nice too.
     
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  16. sbolt

    sbolt Tele-Meister

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    Nice looking build! I finished my 5E7 Bandmaster in August of 2016 and have been gigging it regularly ever since. I built the Weber version with a couple of minor mods. I also re-coned the speakers to two Weber Blue Pups and one Silver Ten.....the Jensen cloned were way too shrill..... now I can actually use the presence pot.

    To me, this amp is less midrange-scooped than a blackface style amp and more touch-sensitive.

    I'm sure you will enjoy the amp! Congrats.
     
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  17. theprofessor

    theprofessor Friend of Leo's

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    Another track, this time with my LP with P-90's. A rendition of "The Thrill is Gone," with me jacking around on some solo stuff.

    5f4 tweed Super with 2x10 Jensen reissue P10R. Epiphone Les Paul with neck pickup only (Lollar 50's wind P-90's) through Surfy Bear reverb unit and into Hi input of Bright channel. Volume on 7, treble on 7, bass on 4, presence on 10.5. Recorded directly to mini SD card through condenser mics on Zoom H2N. No effects added.

     
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  18. D'tar

    D'tar Friend of Leo's

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    Excellent Professor! Congrats on yet another fantastic build! Sounds mighty fine!
     
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  19. CapnCrunch

    CapnCrunch Friend of Leo's

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    That sounds awesome, and I'll bet it will sit in a mix really nicely. Nice playing too!
     
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  20. ginomolinari

    ginomolinari TDPRI Member

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    Bellissimo!
    I am in the process of building a 5e7 Pro so when I found this forum and specifically this tread I was ecstatic for the amount of information, the knowledge sharing and by the quality of work shown, firstly by Theprofessor, but also by other contributors. I say to you all: thank you. It is encouraging and inspiring, specially for a first time builder such as myself.
    My original intentions were to follow the Weber provided layout and the original schematics but looking at the builds in this tread I am noticing that many are opting for adjustable bias. After further inspection I noticed other changes in the original layout such as running 470Ω grid stopper between pin 4 and 6 and placing the 1k5 control grid resistor from pin 5 to the 220k resistor. Plus I spied a couple of diodes on the rectifier pins. I have looked around and found a 2016 Ceriatone layout that looks exactly like this but, most likely for copyrights issues, the high resolution version is not available and Google provides only a low res layout that is quite hard to read.
    But I guess my main question is wether the modifications are needed to make more stable and safer a circuit that was conceived for components that are not easily available anymore and /or a different wall voltage. Thank you all.
     

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