5F1 Cabinet Size to Fit a Celestion Blue?

Discussion in 'Amp Tech Center' started by gabasa, Sep 4, 2020.

  1. gabasa

    gabasa TDPRI Member

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    34
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Hey everyone, I don't post here that often, I'm mostly a lurker, but I wanted to ask how you'd approach this. I used to own two Clark 5F1 amps, two others that were DIY projects, and my son as well as two friends have 1x12 Champs. All of them (except for one 1x8) had standard 5E3 sized cabs with Champ chassis cutouts. One thing they all had in common is that, because of the positioning of the 6V6 on the chassis, a larger speaker such as a Celestion Blue or a Tone Tubby could never fit. The 6V6 and speaker magnet get in the way of one another.

    I'm in the process of building myself another 5F1 now, with the intent to use either a Tone Tubby Alnico Red, a Celestion Blue or a Jupiter 12LA. These speakers sound mindblowingly good with a 5F1, yet it's a sound I've never been able to achieve because of cabinet sizing and speaker positioning.

    For anyone that's done this, or has such an amp, how did you deal with the cabinet sizing and speaker positioning?

    Thanks.
     
  2. capohk

    capohk TDPRI Member

    Age:
    46
    Posts:
    85
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2019
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    I don't know if this helps, but I am in the process of making head cabs for my amps and a 1x12 cabinet to experiment with using different amps, speakers and closing the cabinet back (which I think would not be great for heat build up on a combo). The Alnico Red is right up there on the list for my next speaker purchase too.
     
    gabasa likes this.
  3. gabasa

    gabasa TDPRI Member

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    34
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Thanks, I thought of the head/cab idea, which is smart, but for portability's sake, this one's going to be a combo. I actually think I want to use this for band rehearsals and down the road, gigs.

    I think that if the cabinet is built like a standard Fender narrow panel at 17"(H) x 20"(W) x 9.5"-10.5"(D), and the speaker is offset horizontally by about 2.5" towards the preamp side, I should be able to fit in any 12" speaker, even the larger-magnet ones.

    However, I've seen a Champ build that's 17.5"(H) x 21"(W) x 10.5"-11.5"(D), but I feel that's huge for what it is. It looked nice because the speaker was in the center of the baffle board though, and the larger cabinet is better for reproducing low frequencies.

    I'm tilting towards the smaller size, I was hoping maybe someone could twist my arm in one direction or the other, based on the two sizes above.

    Here's pics of the chassis I just put together. It has Hammond's upgraded PT and their new 1760CP OT (the "P" stands for, "paper"). I threw in a choke so it's actually got some 5E1 in it. I have a 5E3 with a Tone Tubby Alnico Red in it and a Jupiter 12LA lying around waiting to be installed somewhere. I've tried this 5F1 chassis through both speakers, they're phenomenal ... so much better than the ceramics I used to use, or Weber 12A125A I had in the past, at least for my tastes.

    Can't wait until it's all done!

    IMG_4534.jpg

    IMG_4535.jpg

    IMG_4536.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  4. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    12,200
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    Location:
    northwest
    I cant tell you how much you need to add in height, but it was a common problem for a while if adding a 12" Blue, or Weber Blue Dog. The other issue is the speaker magnet cover will stick out the back of the cab a bit if you dont make it deeper. You might see if Weber's amp kits show the 12" option and any dimensions on their cab for it.

    Or just figure adding a couple inches in cab height placing the speaker cutout right at the bottom. That 2" of pine weighs nothing.

    Can't you measure your son's or friends cab to figure it out?
     
    gabasa likes this.
  5. gabasa

    gabasa TDPRI Member

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    34
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Thanks. I actually drew it out and I'm sure that both the sizes I mentioned will fit everything nicely.
    I'm just torn about which way to go... a bit larger or a bit more compact.

    I can't wait, I'm going to record both the TT Red and the Jupiter 12LA using this chassis and whichever seems to record better will stay with the Champ.
    The other will live in my 5E3, because I want the 5E1/5F1 to be my main recording amp. I'll post pics once it's all done, if anyone's interested to see.

    Cheers.
     
  6. jimgchord

    jimgchord Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    47
    Posts:
    1,419
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Location:
    victor,ny
    I use big box princeton size and add an inch to the depth.
     
    gabasa likes this.
  7. fabricator

    fabricator Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    399
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Location:
    Texas
    upload_2020-9-7_22-43-40.jpeg

    I believe I build mine 1” narrower and 1” deeper than my 5E3, and I’m using a 12” Celestion AlNiCo blue.
    I’m very happy with it.
     
    gabasa likes this.
  8. fabricator

    fabricator Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    399
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Location:
    Texas
    BTW, mine is a 5F2A (tweed Princeton) circuit/chassis. Very little difference, but it’s nice to have some tone control.
     
    gabasa likes this.
  9. fabricator

    fabricator Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    399
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Location:
    Texas
    upload_2020-9-8_9-19-48.jpeg

    Here are the dimensions I used.
     
    gabasa likes this.
  10. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    12,200
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    Location:
    northwest
    The Weber cab design for a 5E3 offsets the 12" speaker away from the power transformer end. This allows better clearance to the tube and also balances the amp when carried. The cab is roughly 20w x 16.75 h
    https://tedweber.com/5e3-c-kt/
     
    gabasa likes this.
  11. gabasa

    gabasa TDPRI Member

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    34
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    @fabricator, that is so helpful, thanks so much! In that blueprint, is the speaker depth 6.5"?

    Btw, your amps look gorgeous; I love that two-tone look. My cabinet builder has a lot of pics on his Facebook page and I was thinking of this colour scheme.
     
  12. fabricator

    fabricator Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    399
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Location:
    Texas
    Thanks, gabasa!
    Hopefully it helped.
    Yes, that speaker is 6.5” deep.

    I like that color scheme!
    I never thought of dark green/cream, but I like it!

    I built another amp a few years back using black/cream color scheme after noticing how nice a can of Murphy’s Irish Stout looks, and it’s kind of stuck with me.
     
  13. gabasa

    gabasa TDPRI Member

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    34
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Ok, the cabinet should be done in one week. It's going to be an inch taller than a 5E3 cabinet and an inch deeper. That should do the trick.
    I'll post pics here when it's all together, as well as some sound clips of the two speakers I have to choose from. One is the Tone Tubby Alnico Red and the other is my Jupiter 12LA. Both speakers have a gargantuan sound but are very different from one another, so it would be cool to see what you guys think of how they sound and how they compare to one another.

    There aren't too many Champ recordings around with large-magnet alnico speakers. It's a sound worth hearing IMO, I enjoy it better than R or Q Jensen-style speakers, but that's just the way my ears hear it.

    A friend of mine is doing a very similar project, but he's making a smaller cab to fit a Jupiter 10LA, another amazing speaker that works well in this circuit. If I can record that one too, I will, just for comparison's sake.
     
  14. gabasa

    gabasa TDPRI Member

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    34
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Well, it's done. I ended up making it 17"(H) x 20"(W) x 10"-11" (D).

    It's a bit larger than the 5E3-size cabinet that people typically use for 1x12 Champs, but it fits a large alnico-magnet speaker nicely. Here it is with my Jupiter 12LA, and I'm so happy to be able to fit what I want in there. I might try my Tone Tubby Alnico Red or my WGS G12A soon, too.

    5E1 - 1.jpeg 5E1 - 2.jpeg 5E1 - 3.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
  15. gabasa

    gabasa TDPRI Member

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    34
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    The reason I built this one was to have an amp that sounds great for low-volume recordings that I can do while everyone in the house is sleeping late at night.

    A tweed champ circuit into a Jupiter 12LA records amazingly well, even at really low volumes, now that I've had a chance to test it out. I tried it a bit last night with my Tele in the middle position and an SM57 closeup and a bit off-center. It sounds awesome. I might try to get a Soundcloud account today or tomorrow; if I do, I'll post a sample.
     
  16. gabasa

    gabasa TDPRI Member

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    34
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Ok, I think I've got it.

    I recorded it with both my Tone Tubby Alnico Red and my Jupiter 12LA as well. The Tone Tubby sounds more intimate; the Jupiter sounds more open. Any volume differences are from different recording levels, not the speakers themselves. I didn't get all technical about it, I just wanted to hear them. They both sound great, but I'm going to keep the Jupiter in it for a while. I just learned a flute part and wanted to see how it sounds so go ahead and laugh when you hear it, lol!

    Fwiw, when I uploaded both files to SoundCloud, they started distorting. I think it's their 64kbps encoding. At least you can hear the character of the recorded sounds. I wish we could upload our mp3s directly to the forum, but I don't think it's possible.



     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
  17. DD2016

    DD2016 TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    3
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2020
    Location:
    AZ
    Greetings!

    Wonderful results after enriching the 5E/F1 with the TTR and JLA in a spacious cabinet! Been circling the Jupiter LA's for a while looking for what magic one could conjure up, but these two speakers were where I was torn.

    The TTR seems to offer more chime, yet a mellower range while the JLA tighter and clearer. Both of these beasts really liberate the full, warm and gorgeous cleans of that little gem. :oops:

    Would be curious what you find with the 10LA if you get to try that set-up!

    Thank you!
     
  18. gabasa

    gabasa TDPRI Member

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    34
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    My buddy's amp is done. Same as mine but a smaller cabinet with a 10LA as opposed to my larger cabinet with a 12LA.
    He played it a little tonight to try it out but tomorrow he'll play it for a while to get to know it.

    In my experience, the 12LA is bassier and brighter than the 10LA. The 10LA is huge sounding... full, clear and rich with all the alnico magic you could hope for, but perhaps a little easier to control than the 12. I'd highly recommend it; it's a wonderful speaker.
     
  19. gabasa

    gabasa TDPRI Member

    Age:
    49
    Posts:
    34
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    I think I fixed the recorded files and reuploaded them to SoundCloud. Everything sounds a lot cleaner.
    If you're interested in how this project ended up sounding, try the links a few posts above.

    Fwiw, this is how a 5E1 Champ, with Hammond transformers and a large-alnico-magnet speaker sounds; something that's tough to find on the internet. There's a sample with a Tone Tubby Alnico Red as well as Jupiter 12LA.

    I decided to keep the Jupiter in it for how beautifully combines rich texture with openness. It's a tad on the bright side with Strat and Tele bridge pickups, but the speaker will mellow out over time. I'm really digging it, it sounds far less ratty than what I've had with Champs in the past. To be honest, after about 10 hours of playing time, I'm totally smitten by the sound. I've never had more fun practicing scales, that says a lot.

    Thanks again to everyone that helped me out with this, I really appreciate it. Especially @fabricator for posting your blueprints.
    :)
     
  20. DD2016

    DD2016 TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    3
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2020
    Location:
    AZ
    Took another glance at the tidy circuit layout and noticed that it looks like you went with the Vishay-Mills WW and PRP metal films. (audiophile goosebumps!)

    For the cabinet, did you go with 1/2" baltic birch or something slightly thinner? The SoundCloud demos are utterly entrancing and while the baffle thickness is likely of minimal effect at such low gain I am looking foward to the 10LA in a similarly sized cab.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.