5E3 Tweed Deluxe players - how are the cleans?

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bumnote

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I found, for me, doing it the opposite way worked better. Dial down the VVR controls to a desired volume level and then tweak it from there.
You can't completely reproduce the exact tone you had with full power while keeping the amp settings set the same way once you lower the voltage. Tone may have to increase/decrease a little. The breakup or lack of, at let's say 5 may need to be adjusted closer to 4 or 6 and the interaction of the two volume controls might change slightly to. Sometimes no adjustments are needed.
 

King Fan

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So, if I'm going to build an amp (that I don't really need) from a kit, it might as well be one that is iconic, compact, sensibly priced, and sonically versatile.

Logical choice, and heck, quite possibly the right choice, but is it the 'perfect' choice? Among folks who really know the small tweeds, a 5F10 Harvard or 5F11 Vibrolux is just as 'iconic', at least as inexpensive and compact, and may be even more versatile, accessible, rewarding to play. Where's that Nomex suit? I'm gonna go ahead and say it -- of all the small tweeds, the 5E3 is maybe the most 'famous,' but it's also the one that gets the most 'can't bond with it' reviews after building. Not billions, but *way* more than the others. Why? It's an idiosyncratic beast, different from most all other amps out there, with a lot of 'features' that would be flaws in other amps. People use a million tricks to 'tame' it -- but does that make it the perfect amp to build if you're going to build just one? And if you're worried about volume, you're going to lose a good deal of its versatility and iconic sounds.
 

DHart

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Logical choice, and heck, quite possibly the right choice, but is it the 'perfect' choice? Among folks who really know the small tweeds, a 5F10 Harvard or 5F11 Vibrolux is just as 'iconic', at least as inexpensive and compact, and may be even more versatile, accessible, rewarding to play. Where's that Nomex suit? I'm gonna go ahead and say it -- of all the small tweeds, the 5E3 is maybe the most 'famous,' but it's also the one that gets the most 'can't bond with it' reviews after building. Not billions, but *way* more than the others. Why? It's an idiosyncratic beast, different from most all other amps out there, with a lot of 'features' that would be flaws in other amps. People use a million tricks to 'tame' it -- but does that make it the perfect amp to build if you're going to build just one? And if you're worried about volume, you're going to lose a good deal of its versatility and iconic sounds.
Well, that's a bit of provocative content - and quite possibly the way to go. I need to carefully consider that!

That said, I am attracted to the odd, unusual complexity of the two interactive channel/volume controls and the tone control. Something different from the typical and simple, straightforward approach of most basic amps. It would seem that the Deluxe would offer more variety of tones than the Harvard does?

I am taking my good sweet time trying to decide what kit to build.

At first I thought I wanted the AA1164 PR. Then decided I didn't need the reverb & tremolo.

Then I heard about people loving the Tweed Deluxe tones that are so iconic, and decided to consider that amp. Now you've got me thinking once again.

In your view, what advantages do you see with the 5F10 Harvard and the 5F11 Vibrolux?
 
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2L man

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I can't get breakup at that low of a level with mine (Keedy 5e3).
Installing separate cathode resistors/capacitors for input triodes is easy and efficient 5E3 mod. 1k5 resistor will keep bias the same but other channel can be made "colder". "Marshally" 2k7 and 0.68uf will make input triode produce more 2nd harmonics using single coil pickups. Dimed Humbuckers will clip input triode a lot.

2k2 and 2uF would change channel somewhere between.

I understand V1 swapping between 12AX7, 12AY7 or 5751 because it does not require circuit changes but it does not change Operating/Bias Point much and tube type change both channels. Actual effect there come is 12AY7 Volume at 12 is about the same when 12AX7 Volume is 11.
 

Jared Purdy

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I'm well aware of the ubiquitous overdrive tones these little amps are famous for and can certainly enjoy some of that mojo (if not full-bore) at times.

But I also like a nice clean tube tone, so I'm wondering if the 5E3 can deliver a nice clean tone when played in home studio settings (only at low to moderate volumes).

I understand that lowering the guitar's signal is often a requirement for this, especially with humbuckers and hotter single coils.

In my case, the amp would not be used in a band setting/live. Only used in a home studio, at low to moderate volume levels.

So... can you enjoy a fairly clean or just edge-of-breakup with your 5E3?

I have been pouring through various YouTube demo videos for 5E3s, and more of those demos are focused on driving the amp hard for a ton of breakup.
I have 57 Custom Deluxe, so made by Fender (2020) and a 64 Hand Wired PR, all be it with a GA10 SC64. In clean "mode" they are not the same. A Fender PR is the bench mark for clean (IMHO) - unless of course it is pushed into OD. I find with the Deluxe, while it is clean if not pushed, it doesn't take much to produce a little dirt. A slight change in the pick attack, and there you have it. I keep both value controls and the tone control on the Deluxe at 8 and I control the rest from the guitar. I don't jumper the inputs. With a Tele or a Strat, I keep the volume on the guitar at about 6, and that is clean. Go any higher and you're going into some dirt. Tone control varies, but that does not introduce more grit. With my LP, it's louder with the guitar volume on 6 (I leave the tone wide open on it), there is definitely more head room, but it too is greatly affected by pick attack at that volume. You can get Chet Atkins, Wes Montgomery cleans out of it with an LP (and not too far off in sound either), but it'll sound like John Scofield pretty quick with the slightest bit of a push. I prefer the sound of the Deluxe with my Tele and Strat over the LP, but that's just me. You can definitely get jazz cleans out of it.
 

gswearengin

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If this is your first build, the 5E3 is a great choice.

I would have preferred a Harvard, but went with the deluxe for the number of available kits and the plethora of readily available information.

Simple circuit, great documentation, lots of potential mods.

I like the 5E3, but would still like to try a Harvard!
 

tugboat1980

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Excellent, good to know. And if you hit the input pretty hard from a humbucker or a boost, can you get to some edge-of-break up before it's too loud for an apartment?

My 1 x 10 tweed champ is way too loud at edge of breakup for apartments. A 5E3 will assuredly piss off your entire complex.
 

Supertwang

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My 5e3 was built from the TXs up with clean jazz and blues in mind. It does the most beautiful cleans I’ve ever heard especially with a low wind neck PAF. 5e3 amps have a natural chorus effect produced by the dual volume control circuit. My 5e3 only has a slight but gorgeous over drive,….it doesn’t do that Neil Young massive loose raucous overdrive at all.
 

Supertwang

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My 1 x 10 tweed champ is way too loud at edge of breakup for apartments. A 5E3 will assuredly piss off your entire complex.
Have you tried playing your Champ with the volume turned up just past half way and start with your guitar turned full OFF? Then “sneak up” the volume on the guitar until you get want you want/need? Still might be too much for inside an apartment tho
 

Haolemon

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I'm well aware of the ubiquitous overdrive tones these little amps are famous for and can certainly enjoy some of that mojo (if not full-bore) at times.

But I also like a nice clean tube tone, so I'm wondering if the 5E3 can deliver a nice clean tone when played in home studio settings (only at low to moderate volumes).

I understand that lowering the guitar's signal is often a requirement for this, especially with humbuckers and hotter single coils.

In my case, the amp would not be used in a band setting/live. Only used in a home studio, at low to moderate volume levels.

So... can you enjoy a fairly clean or just edge-of-breakup with your 5E3?

I have been pouring through various YouTube demo videos for 5E3s, and more of those demos are focused on driving the amp hard for a ton of breakup.
I have owned many amps over the years, including tweed and blackface Fenders, Mesa Boogies, Vox, etc. My current favorite amps are a Clark Beaufort (5E3) and a Lil Dawg Champster (5F1).
They are great in different ways. The 5E3 has the most glorious cleans I have ever heard, but it is indeed loud, even when clean. As far as apartment volumes go, even the 5F1 gets pretty loud. I have a little Vox AC4TV, which has settings for 4 , 1, and 1/4 watts. This might keep you in your apartment, but to my ear it does not have the glorious cleans of the 5E3. It has its own charm, as do many others. And, as only an old guy would say "So many amps, so little time".

Good luck
 
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Mike Eskimo

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Between my beloved Yamaha THR10 and Morgan MVP23 amps, I certainly have no need for another amplifier. (What's need got to do, got to do with it? :rolleyes: Heard with Tina's iconic voice.)

But, I just have a strong interest in building an amp. So, if I'm going to build an amp (that I don't really need) from a kit, it might as well be one that is iconic, compact, sensibly priced, and sonically versatile. I'm fine with getting reverb from my Strymon CloudBurst, and I can get a tremolo pedal if need be, so I don't need to add those complications to an amp (Princeton Reverb).

SO.... that is why I have interest in the Tweed Deluxe 5E3. :)

Or you could build a Deluxe, Harvard, Champ, and tweed Princeton - all at the same time/in the same amp !

 

tugboat1980

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Have you tried playing your Champ with the volume turned up just past half way and start with your guitar turned full OFF? Then “sneak up” the volume on the guitar until you get want you want/need? Still might be too much for inside an apartment tho

When I lived in an apartment I tried it every which way I could. Ultimately physics dictates that good old fashioned amp driven power tube edge of breakup tone is directly correlated with volume. Can’t have one without the other.

Even tried attenuators but they sounded like butt. I live in a house now and came to grips with getting dirt from pedals at house friendly volumes. When my wife and kids are out I’ll crank it but I assure you a champ through a healthy speaker is a loud little bastard.

I like an Xotic RC booster as a sweetener and edge of breakup tone generator (controlling clean with picking and volume control), a Mojo Hand Mule (similar to a Red Llama) as a tweedy boost for more dirt, and a Rat clone I built for a JCM 800 in a box thing. Gets me good tones at volumes that keep the peace in the house.

When I’m home alone and I can turn up the amp an Analogman Beano Boost by itself with humbuckers is a glorious sound too. But that’s loud.
 
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schmee

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I found the 5E3 too clean for me at lower volumes, except on leads when you push it into that infamous OD territory they are noted for. A little difficult to get enough low end from that tone stack. Too much of a one trick pony for a diverse songlist, great on a recording for a solo. JMHO

I sold my original 5E3 for $75 in 1977!
 

CRMCRM

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Had a 5e3. Sold it in favor of a tweed Princeton. Just moved it into a 5e3 size cab with a 12" speaker. I love the warmth of a tweed for jazz.
 

Rik_Everglade

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I didn’t read all of these, but putting a 5751 tube in first, second, or both preamp sockets keeps everything cleaner. Each combination has different affect on tone. I’ll bet you like it. I do.
 

muscmp

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i've built a couple 5e3 from kit and one that i bought the parts separately and built. best thing i did for mine was to use the 12ay7 in v1 and add rob's 3 way nfb circuit to them. it goes from dirt, to a little cleaner, to even more clean. i also use the weber 12a125a speaker.

play music!
 

noname_dragon

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You asked about 5E3 cleans at low volumes. It has deep and delicious clean tones that are much variable with the interactive V&T controls. The speaker is the final voice, I've tried a more than few and keep coming back to the low wattage alnico that pleases my ear.
 

Maguchi

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I got the Fender '57 reissue version and kept the factory tubes and speaker and the cleans are great. Rich, detailed and complex. Guitar straight into amp with no pedals the dirt starts to come on about 7 with HBs or 8 with SCs. Plenty loud enough clean for a apartment and some gigs. BTW, Tweeds go to 12, not 10.

20210502_214511.jpg
 
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DHart

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My 1 x 10 tweed champ is way too loud at edge of breakup for apartments. A 5E3 will assuredly piss off your entire complex.
When cranked... no doubt.

But can you get nice, rich clean tones out of it at low volumes? Or do you have to crank it somewhat before the clean tone becomes pleasing?
 
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