5E3 or 5F6 crazy requests

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by HuntleyAmps93, Nov 30, 2019.

  1. HuntleyAmps93

    HuntleyAmps93 TDPRI Member

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    I have been tasked by a potential customer of mine on a very unique amp build. He plays southern rock and 70s classic rock. He has several production amps each amp has things he like about them but he doesn’t have a “go to amp”. So... he wants me to build him a 5F6 simple right....? I thought so until he says “ I like the 5F6 but I want input 1 high side normal and input 1 bright side blended together through 2-12” speakers that way I can have clean and dirt blended without running 2 heads into one cab” is this request even close to possible? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
     
  2. corliss1

    corliss1 Friend of Leo's

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    Nope, not without a whole separate output section. You'd basically be doing a stereo amp at that point.
     
  3. HuntleyAmps93

    HuntleyAmps93 TDPRI Member

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    So is there a stereo circuit out there that has been implemented in a build like this?
     
  4. bblumentritt

    bblumentritt Tele-Afflicted

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    Well... if you revoice the 5F6 channels, and then jumper them, you have the Normal and Bright channel blended together... but you don't get separate signals, you get a third.

    I got a very similar request from a customer, and what he's asking for is pretty much a stereo amp, just as corliss1 said.
     
  5. HuntleyAmps93

    HuntleyAmps93 TDPRI Member

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    Right that’s what he is wanting... he wants a three push button switch pedal added so he can choose between normal, bright and the third will be a blend of the two. So is that possible?
     
  6. bblumentritt

    bblumentritt Tele-Afflicted

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    Sure, you can build a head with two output transformers, a large beefy power transformer, plenty of rectification, and two sets of output tubes, plus switching/combining. It will weigh, what, 60-75 pounds, and cost, what, $3600-$5000?

    It would be easier to have two heads and a footswitch.
     
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  7. HuntleyAmps93

    HuntleyAmps93 TDPRI Member

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    Believe me I explained to the guy it would be very pricey and suggested he check out Line6 products and that wasn’t an option lucky me right? I just wasn’t if it was doable. Thanks for the info man.
     
  8. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Maybe I am dull this morning, so correct me if I don’t understand this. first of all, “input 1 high side normal” is a confusing description to me. I don’t see why there is a need for two amps or one stereo amp. Maybe I am not understanding the goal.
    Huntley, isn’t your customer wanting the ability to run either channel of a 5F6A alone or together in parallel? Why can that not be done? Or...am I missing the deal. It seems that if he has a 5F6A type amp...or any early Marshall....that a simple A/B/Y pedal gets the deal done.....either channel alone or both together. Could the switching be built into the amp seems to be the question. and...if this is what he wants, has he not been doing this with an outboard ABY pedal? An outboard pedal is simpler than building this into the amp. One can run different pedal chains through each input of the amp...through the ABY pedal....to achieve different responses.
    now.....any ‘hey, wake up, boy!’ corrections will be accepted...because this is not my best morning, I can tell already.
     
  9. HuntleyAmps93

    HuntleyAmps93 TDPRI Member

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    He has 2 66” Bassman heads that are identical running them through a 2-12 cab. He’s got one set to a very clean loud tone the other he has “dimed” out to achieve some dirt with a volume pedal in line to lower the projected volume. He has both these heads ran into a 3 switch “blend pedal” with the results being exactly what he wants... Here’s the issue, he wants one head that will give all that. He also has each of the heads input jumped ex. Input 1 normal to input 2 bright. I hope this clears something’s up... I spent 6 hours with this gentleman yesterday trying to figure out what he wanted??
     
  10. corliss1

    corliss1 Friend of Leo's

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    And remember, just because it's doable doesn't mean *you* have to do it. I've turned down repairs and a lot of custom requests just because it's either not something I'm interested in doing or the price would have to be completely insane.
     
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  11. HuntleyAmps93

    HuntleyAmps93 TDPRI Member

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    That’s kind of where I’m at with the deal is just turning it down. I enjoy building the 5F1 circuit and just hot rod the fire out of it. I tried explaining that to this guy but he’s very persistent. I guess I can’t make everyone happy as much as I’d like to.
     
  12. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Huntley, I take the Bass channel in those AB165 based Bassman amps and turn them into a midrange, gainy channel. I put a midrange boost in them. Do that for your friend, and I will guess that he will be a happy man when he runs an ABY pedal.
     
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  13. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    Musicians speak musician and technicians speak technician. It's inevitable things get lost in translation. Speaking for myself, I build kick ass amps. They're kick ass because I made around four dozen tag boards for my last prototype. I spend two years on and off on that amp.

    Want me to change it? You might as well ask me for a Porsche with the motor in the front.
     
  14. corliss1

    corliss1 Friend of Leo's

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    ^^^^^^^^^Exactly. Building an amp is the easy part. Coming up with a nice/quiet/workable layout, troubleshooting, testing, tweaking, design, and all that investment is all why I don't do one-offs. By the time I sell an amp it's likely been through several iterations and revisions.
     
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  15. King Fan

    King Fan Friend of Leo's

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    Wise words from practiced pros. In this case, too, the customer was maybe smoking dream dope. One-offs are bad, but impossible one-offs take longer.

    I once talked a real-musician buddy into ordering a smaller amp from a well-respected builder who offers several options on each amp. When he asked my buddy what he had in mind for his one-channel, 4-knob amp, my buddy started telling him how he loved Santana's sound and wanted something like a Dumble...
     
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  16. charlie chitlin

    charlie chitlin Doctor of Teleocity

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    I have a Kendrick BadAssMan with inputs for Normal, Drive and Both.
    Its pretty cool.
    I suppose the right switching pedal would make all 3 available.
    Wanna buy it?
     
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  17. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    Pretty much stopped talking about working on amps locally years ago. Seemed like when I did I'd get that guy that wants a 482 channel amp that covers every possible situation. Inevitably if I said just buy a Boogie Swiss Army Edition, the dude would say those are too expensive.
    Now if I bring it up, its all about old tube amps, that I might actually enjoy working on.
     
  18. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

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    I am a little dim but I am thinking he has a A/B pedal into a volume pedal on the dirt side and going into a clean amp on the other side. Being a Bassman there is no master volume, dirt through the amp would be the output distorting wouldn't it?

    I would do two channels up until the output stage. Then I would have a master for both channels, or no master for the clean. Both then get fed to the output grids. One PI would have a clean signal and the other would be dirt. One output stage going to two speakers. Will this be adequate? You can get a mix of clean and dirt but you are missing one amp so a drop in volume. Also with one signal two two speakers you get less of a stereo effect. Other than this layout it is running two amps in one head.

    Where does the 5E3 come in?
     
  19. HuntleyAmps93

    HuntleyAmps93 TDPRI Member

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    The 5E3 was an idea I threw out there for this guy because he mics everything he does anyway so why have all that clean power as a 5f6a or a 5f8 has the potential of putting out? It’s not like he’s playing in a wide open 200 acre field. It took me a long while to explain to him that having an amp that is capable of producing 80watts of clean is “cool” but why??? In my experience of playing and building I’ve always achieved my best tones from low volume from the amp in a studio or “bedroom” setting. If it sounds good here just mic that sound on stage right? So a 20watt 5e3 with a good warm clean sound and a nice natural break up growl in studio just run it through the PA and it’s great live! At the end of the day he’s wanting a $5,000.00 one off head that will blow all of SLASHs JCM800 full stacks off the stage with a $800-$1000 price tag. He has tons of pedal boards 25+ amps a full blown recording studio so I guess I’m going to have to turn this challenge down that he has put on me. Sorry for all the ranting I just really hate backing down from a challenge but this one is just way to far out of my norm it seems.
     
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  20. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    I thought about packaging this in a Twin Reverb chassis. There is plenty of real estate in there. I have an old Rowe juke box PT that drops right into a Twin Reverb chassis. It had two 5U4Gs and four 7868s. An SS rectifier means you could have two channels all the way out through the PA...

    It's overkill. All the dirt channel needs is volume and tone controls.

    The 5E3 is there to add chaos to the process as far as I'm concerned. Too loose. Not enough sustain.

    Why? Because your customer is quoting relatively tight specifications without regard to actualization. Don't tell me how to do my job. Just tell me what you want.

    I try to build in enough range and versatility that musicians quickly and intuitively find their comfort zone even if we're not on the same page.

    A 5E3 is a 12 watt amp. A Princeton Reverb squeezes out 15 watts with elevated supply voltage and fixed bias.

    I build a mutant 5E3 that actually does a loud clean tone. I like it dimed or in this case "twelved" although it will call the cops from three towns over when I wind up the wick.

    Most musicians are blissfully unaware of any sort of prototyping process. A lot of design and engineering needs to come together. It needs to come together perfectly on the first try because we only get paid for one try. That's packaging design. control panel design, circuit design, circuit packaging, styling which is an area of difficulty for some builders... hell, I've seen the insides of other people's builds. Some of 'em look like they're stuck on their first build.

    The first prototype usually points out changes that should be made in the second prototype. That's the hassle right there. Anything custom is time consuming and it may take a couple tries.

    These things often evolve into something exceedingly cool. It ain't quick and it ain't easy.
     
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