5E3 Clone speakers?

Discussion in 'Shock Brother's DIY Amps' started by lexx9, Feb 13, 2009.

  1. lexx9

    lexx9 Tele-Meister

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    I have a 5E3 clone on its way and I am going to build the cab myself. I asked for suggestions for speakers and everyone said a Weber 12" but with the economy the way it is I am trying to save myself some cash. I have a Weber 8" Blue pup laying around so its only to pick up another 8" (still way cheaper then a 12") .I was wondering what everyone thought it would sound like with a pair of 8"? Pls feel free to poke holes in my plan! LOL:lol:..... Joking aside any advice is always welcome. lexx
     
  2. TNO

    TNO Friend of Leo's

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  3. Ricky D.

    Ricky D. Doctor of Teleocity

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    I have a Weber alnico Sig 12 (not Sig 12S) in my Mission 5E3 and it sounds really good. Make that really, really good.

    2x8"? Never heard any guitar amp with that setup. If you build it, we need a full report as to how you like it.

    Obviously, it's up to you, and you are entitled to your preferences. But I have to recommend that you stick to a 12" speaker and see why this has been a classic for 50 years.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2009
  4. fenson

    fenson ---------------------------------

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    +1
     
  5. ThermionicScott

    ThermionicScott Poster Extraordinaire

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    Just make sure you get the impedance right. That OT wants to see around 8 ohms.

    - Scott
     
  6. Tim Swartz

    Tim Swartz Friend of Leo's

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    It definitely worth trying unless you are big fan of big bottom.
     
  7. lexx9

    lexx9 Tele-Meister

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    I am not sure what to do it was just a thought. I kinda like to go against the grain somewhat if you know what I mean.I will see if I get any more responses before I decide. I have a Epiphone Galaxie 25 that I made a new cab for out of solid pine and took out the Celestion 70-80 and replaced with a 15" Jensen and that sounds deadly. I also have a Pro Junior that was noisey from the start and did not get along with so I had a friend of mine strip it down and build it into a 18 watt lite which is also nice but somewhat of a one trick pony.lexx
     
  8. petebradt

    petebradt Former Member

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    This is what you want. Excellent speaker for a 5E3. It's what I use. Grab it quick.
     
  9. JohnnyCrash

    JohnnyCrash Doctor of Teleocity

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    Build the cab big enough for a 1x12" and you can simply swap in/out speaker baffles.

    Try the 2x8" for now, but when you get the dough, something bigger than 8"s is definitely recommended.

    A good "budget" speaker for those looking for more of a rock sound in a 5E3 is a reissue Jensen C12N. I like the C12N for country and blues as well, but an AlNiCo will likely sound more authentic and give you more of a blues feel. Sometimes you can find them used on eBay or elsewhere.

    If you even want, a 1x15" would be cool and unique. The AlNiCo reissue P15N Jensens are great speakers for all kinds of stuff. Great sound, smooth mids, warm highs (but not lacking top end). I even use them for recording bass.
     
  10. celeste

    celeste Friend of Leo's

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    I built a 2X8 combo. I had this little combo case with a "death cap" amp and 2x6 1/2 from the early 50's. I decided that I did not want to mess with the amp, so I used the case as a front. I really shoe horned in the 8's
    http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d179/CeCeHall/DSCN0340reduced.jpg
    I had to extend the cab back to get room for the new amp and the old cab forms just the front.
    http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d179/CeCeHall/DSCN0338reduced.jpg
    It is the little white cab on top of the black bass cab.

    The case is probably far from optimum, but I really feel that the amp is let down by the speakers. It sounds much better through the any of the 1X12 next to it, but they are AX84 core cabs and really are exceptionally good.

    That said, like Johnny said, if the combo can fit a 1X12, just a change in baffle board it fits a 2X8, so you can try not and if you really do not like it, change when times get better.
     
  11. shadowfan

    shadowfan Tele-Meister

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    Problem is that if your existing speaker is 8 ohms and you add an identical speaker your OT will see 4 ohms if connected in parallel (which is normally done) or 16 ohms if hooked up in series. Seems like you'd need quad 8 ohm speakers to get back to the required 8 ohms unless you change the OT with a 4 ohm secondary (unless your OT is multi-tap, of course).
     
  12. shadowfan

    shadowfan Tele-Meister

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    I just checked, Mission Amp's OT for the 5E3 has both 4 and 8 ohm secondaries. You should be OK (but check anyway!)
     
  13. lexx9

    lexx9 Tele-Meister

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    My 5E3 Clone has the multi tap. In the mean time I have been using my Epipone as a cab which as I said in a early post has a 15" Jensen and I say the 15" is just handling the 5E3! The guy I bought it from said it was 10-15 watts..... not likely! This thing is LOUD! In my opinion there is no way two 8" can handle it. This is my first 5E3 and to be honest I really don't know what to think of the interactive controls...and to be totally honest I am not even sure I understand them.Also I noticed it hates humbuckers or my Tele in the 4th position. Any help would be a plus. lexx
     
  14. JohnnyCrash

    JohnnyCrash Doctor of Teleocity

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    SPEAKERS:
    Depending on the 8"s, they'll be more than fine. A cheap Weber "Sig" can handle 15 watts each, a cheap Jensen MOD 8" can handle 20 watts, an AlNiCo reissue Jensen P8R or ceramic C8R can handle handle 25 watts.

    The wattage handling of two Weber Sig's ends up around 30 watts - plenty for a 15 watt amp pushed into overdrive.

    INTERACTIVE CONTROLS:
    There's really not much to them, though some are mystified by them (and even grant them imaginary magic powers). Both channel's each feed a Volume pot via their 12AX7's half plate through a coupling capacitor. Both feed into the next gainstage at one spot though.

    To get more rawness and mids, turn the other channel's Volume up about halfway. To slightly scoop the mids, turn the other channel's Volume up all the way.

    It was a ghetto, cheap, short-cut of a way to get two channels with few circuit parts. If you only had one channel, the 5E3 mojo is still there.

    HATES HUMBUCKERS:
    Some of the older tweed circuits had big fat coupling capacitors. So in addition to an unfettered preamp (with plenty of gain on tap), you have a fatter signal.

    For instance, the tweed Deluxe (5E3) has 0.1uF couplers for most of the preamp, whereas the next Deluxe design (the "Brown" 6G3) used 0.022uF caps - most guitar amps now use 0.022uF for the most part.

    PS
    I recently acquired a 40+ year old Silvertone 1482 "poor man's tweed Deluxe" and they use 0.01uF, which are smaller yet, and there's still a nice bass and mid response to it.


    If you wanted to get adventurous and tweak one channel to be more "humbucker friendly," you could swap one channel's preamp output caps to a 0.022uF (the first preamp tube, either pin 1, or pin 6).

    Considering how caveman the design is (interactive volumes, PI, etc), it's intended use (a Mic channel and an Instrument channel meant for NOT tailoring the circuit to an overdriven electric guitar, but for multipurpose PA type use), and what we can "borrow" from other designs since then, there are still a few tweaks you can do to this tiny, basic circuit.

    FOR INSTANCE:
    You can split the cathodes on the preamp tube and change the bias/gain of either channel at the preamp via the cathode resistor.

    As far as splitting the cathodes on the preamp tube you could tweak a channel's gain shelf by changing the cathode bypass cap on that channel's preamp cathode. This can give you a different midrange feel. Smaller bypass makes for a more "Marshall Bright channel" feel, larger means more lows.

    You could change the input grid resistors on a channel (or both) to allow for more input gain and frequencies (lowering the 68k resistors, or even omitting them and using ferrite beads on the input wires to do what the 68k's were for - reducing radio interference).

    And as mentioned you could change the preamp coupling caps to fatten, or thin the sound on a channel (or both).

    --

    Combining all of this, you could use a 1500 ohm (or 2200, or 2700) cathode resistor on one cathode at the preamp tube to lower gain for a cleaner (less driven) channel.

    You could then tailor the midrange feel by tweaking the cathode bypass cap there.

    You could also use a smaller valued coupling cap on that channel to make for less darkness/thickness for humbuckers.

    --

    Mine is essentially stock, but I added two stiches. One changes the preamp from stock bias and bypass to a colder bias (2700 cathode resistor instead of the 820 ohm) with a slightly thinner feel (a 0.68uF cap instead of the 25uF).

    The other switch selects either stock 5Y3 rectifier or a SS rectifier with additional filteration (another 40uF in parallel for added bottom end).

    Stock I love mine with my '57 RI Gibson LP or a Tele - but the switchable options to go to a brighter, cleaner preamp and/or to a tighter bottom end with no rectifier sag is nice.

    --

    Not much to the 5E3, but there's still two or three places you can play with in the circuit. It won't change it to another amp entirley, but it can help with slight tweaks for more flexibility.
     
  15. lexx9

    lexx9 Tele-Meister

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    JohnnyCrash, thank you for all your help and advice!!! lexx
     
  16. angelodp

    angelodp TDPRI Member

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    MojoTone MP12R

    I have a MojoTone 12" MP12R speaker..... will that be ok on a 5E3 build.
     
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