1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

5E3 Build Mod Questions/Ideas

Discussion in 'Shock Brother's DIY Amps' started by Dizzydre21, Apr 20, 2017.

  1. Dizzydre21

    Dizzydre21 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    29
    Posts:
    6
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Location:
    Denver
    See below for tl;dr. This might go kind of long.

    Hi everyone, this is my first post here, but I've came to tdpri and surfed the forums for years now. In the last year or so it has mostly been DIY this and thats. I built my first amp almost a year ago (5f1, go figure) and I play it pretty much every day. I built it with the beefed up transformer that allows me to run a 6l6 in it, but hadn't really played it much that way until last night. Now typically, I run a lower gain preamp tube for a slightly cleaner tone and breakup at a little later on the volume dial. Well, last night with a 6l6 and a 12ax7 I totally fell in the love with the amp all over again. TONAL BLISS!! I know it is kind of sacrilege to the originality of the tweed tone, but i really don't care about that in a clone lol.
    With that said, I'm in the process of piecing together a 5e3 build, but haven't bought anything more than the components and board for the 5e3 circuit. I got them from Mojotone. Anyways, I'm pretty certain that I want to be able to run 6l6s in this bad boy. I've read in quite a few places where people have done the same, but I could really use a bit of guidance in doing this as well as any other small mods that it might bring about. It would be cool to have some switchable stuff where I can achieve the original 5e3 tone as well as the tone and headroom that comes with using the 6l6s and a larger output transformer. I would definitely like to run 6v6s too.
    One of the threads I read mentioned the cathode biasing or something was a large part of the 5e3/tweed tone. I'm not really sure what that means, but I'd like to keep that with 6l6s if possible. I could definitely use some guidance with that as well. I do have a technical and electrical background, but my knowledge in guitar amplifiers is somewhat limited. I have the Guitar Amp Handbook by Dave Hunter, but I do not yet totally grasp what components do what or why. So if anyone would be willing to toss me some ideas in layman's terms, help explain what exactly they do, and work me into this build it would be most appreciated!

    tl;dr

    I'm starting a 5e3 build and I want the capability to run 6l6s and 6v6s with a beefier transformer. I have an electrical background, but I'm not that versed in guitar amps, though I've built a 5f1 Champ. I would appreciated thoughts/ideas and any guidance one is willing to toss me. I really don't want the amp to be a 40 watter, but a little more headroom than a 5e3 and a firmer bottom end is what I'm looking for.


    Thanks all

    -Dakota
     
  2. D'tar

    D'tar Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,375
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Location:
    WNY
    jasonvilla, Royal Tele and Piotr like this.
  3. Dizzydre21

    Dizzydre21 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    29
    Posts:
    6
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Location:
    Denver
    Thank you sir. I've skimmed through that site before, but I will go through it all more thoroughly. I'm assuming it would be worthwhile to hold off on ordering anything else until then or is there a set standard pair of transformers people get when using 6l6s? It would just be nice to get everything ordered if possible, but I suppose I shouldn't rush it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  4. ecoast

    ecoast Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    839
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2017
    Location:
    NWNJ
    I just built one like you are speaking of

    added master volume, negative FB switch, 3 way impedance

    6v6 & 5881/6l6

    search 'pennypincher' here



    Mr Robinette's site is a goldmine, and there are some helpful members here on tdpri
     
    Dizzydre21 likes this.
  5. Royal Tele

    Royal Tele Tele-Holic

    Age:
    33
    Posts:
    923
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Location:
    Lone Star State
    +1 on the nod toward Rob Robinette's site. Good call, D'tar. He's got detailed info on his page for exactly what you're after. Good luck!
     
  6. Dizzydre21

    Dizzydre21 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    29
    Posts:
    6
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Location:
    Denver

    I skimmed most of that and it looks like a sweet build. I will go back through it to the end later tonight or tomorrow. I plan on posting pics and what not of my build once I get a solid idea of what I want to do. I probably won't put it in a cabinet right away because I just got a new audio interface and can't drop the dough on it for a bit. I may try and build one though, but that is truly out of my area of expertise.
     
    ecoast and jrwblw375 like this.
  7. robrob

    robrob Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    8,346
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Location:
    United States
  8. SacDAve

    SacDAve Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    69
    Posts:
    7,407
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Location:
    Rocklin Ca.
    Two of the most popular Mods are the Leads channel Mod & negative Feedback Mod. You might want to add some turrets for those. 5E3 mod .jpg
     
    jasonvilla likes this.
  9. Dizzydre21

    Dizzydre21 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    29
    Posts:
    6
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Location:
    Denver

    Yep, I have seen that both of those are pretty popular. The lead channel one is for a more gain-y Marshall type tone isn't it and the NFB mod also adds a bit of gain and volume?
     
  10. Snfoilhat

    Snfoilhat Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    40
    Posts:
    1,396
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    There is nothing wrong with building a kit from a layout, sourcing every part according to what someone before you has found to work and just making the connections with your soldering iron.

    But your question about which transformer to choose for a 2x6L6 'Proluxe' type of amp is a great way to start (or continue) critically thinking about electronics and amp building. Basic questions like how much current to heat a pair of 6L6s (vs a pair of 6V6s), and what high voltage you are aiming for, get a person engaging with their project in a way that's more likely to be educational, satisfying, easier troubleshooting, more likely to catch when someone gives you bad advice (rare around here but possible). I'm not a part of the (valuable) sometimes elitist squad that tells people they are going to shock themselves, but I have seen new builders wire their 120V AC mains right to the chassis because the layout drawing arguably looked like that.

    The tube data sheets have info beyond the scope of anything you'll probably need to choose, build, and enjoy a cool clone or classic-inspired amp, but it'd be good to still get familiar with the basics which are also on those sheets. Spend some time with not only the schematic of your soon-to-be amp (I think it is on the Weber website), but also the schematic of its 'genetic' material, the 5E3 or 5E5, and maybe a 2x6L6 fixed-bias cousin, one of the 40W blackface AB763 family of amps. You can learn a lot in the comparison. Cheers
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
    Dizzydre21 and ecoast like this.
  11. robrob

    robrob Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    8,346
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Location:
    United States
    The lead channel mod filters some of the excess bass for a tighter, more modern tone. The channel is much more pedal friendly and much less likely to fart out.

    The NFB 3-way switch gives you normal 5E3, no V2 cathode bypass cap for less gain, and NFB for the least gain and cleanest tone. The switch makes the amp much more versatile and less of a one-trick-pony.
     
    Dizzydre21 and ecoast like this.
  12. Dizzydre21

    Dizzydre21 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    29
    Posts:
    6
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Location:
    Denver
    It's been a bit since I've been on the forum, but I wanted to thank you guys for your comments. Snfoilhat, I really appreciate your advice especially. I do have a solid working knowledge of electrical safety and all that jazz. What I need to improve on is actually how things within an amp operate. I'm already working on that though.
    I decided to go ahead and build a mostly stock 5e3 to get familiar with it and then maybe change out transformers and stuff later. I did buy a 20 watt Classic Tone OT though so it is a little beefier I think and the 4/8/16 tap was crucial for me to swap speakers and nerd out with all that. I'll probably do the NFB and lead mods now as I build and just put them on switches. My parts should arrive later this week so with all luck I may just bring it to do some songs at my girlfriend's recital/concert this weekend. She's a music teacher and I'm part of the backing band for her kids.
    Anyone have advice on where to go for a good head/cab builder for a not so expensive price?
     
  13. arcticbreaze

    arcticbreaze Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    123
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2014
    Location:
    Oamaru NZ
  14. Dizzydre21

    Dizzydre21 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    29
    Posts:
    6
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Location:
    Denver
    How do you like it? I got the Classic Tone 40-18090 and I'm pretty sure the primary side has an impedance of 8k ohms. How does that affect tone? I see the transformer you linked has a primamy with 4.2k ohms. I am going to get one similar to yours eventually.
     
  15. arcticbreaze

    arcticbreaze Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    123
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2014
    Location:
    Oamaru NZ
    I do like the tone of this amp and the 40-8001 works equally well with the 6v6's.
    changing the output tap ie. runing an 8 ohm speaker on another tap 4 or 16 can't remember which way ( the guru's will put us right here )(i did used to know) will give an 8k primary

    I have some in at the moment they are running a bit cold on bias as my cathode resistance is set for the 6l6's and I havn't put in a switch. stole the 6l6's for another amp I'm building, till I buy some more.
    do bear in mind I don't play guitar only harmonica but have had others use my amp for guitar with the 6l6's in and sounded as good as the Mesa blue angel siting beside it (maybe better but I am biased lol)
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.