5E3 Build and Cabinet Finish questions.

[rschiller]

Built my first amp, naturally a 5E3. (Has everyone and their grandmother built a 5E3?) I used many of Gerald Weber's ideas. I'm attaching images of the Mojotone cabinet which I finished using 2 coats of amber shellac and then 4 coats of satin lacquer. The cabinet tone is a bit dark but is close in appearance to an original clean 1958 5E3 I have.
The amp tone is comporable to two 1958 5E3s I have though mine has almost no 60 cycle hum.
I started brushing the shellac but found applying with a clean towel better. For those that have done cabinets before:

- Is it better to apply a lacquer sealer coat first? I believe that would more easily even out the shellac. And I'm thinking the amber shellac may benefit, at least on the first coat, by going 50/50 with denatured alcohol.
- Did Fender just use spray on lacquer and the tone darkened over time? Or in the Tweed era did they darken with amber shellac or a toner in the lacquer

 

[Jared Purdy]

Built my first amp, naturally a 5E3. (Has everyone and their grandmother built a 5E3?) I used many of Gerald Weber's ideas. I'm attaching images of the Mojotone cabinet which I finished using 2 coats of amber shellac and then 4 coats of satin lacquer. The cabinet tone is a bit dark but is close in appearance to an original clean 1958 5E3 I have.
The amp tone is comporable to two 1958 5E3s I have though mine has almost no 60 cycle hum.
I started brushing the shellac but found applying with a clean towel better. For those that have done cabinets before:

- Is it better to apply a lacquer sealer coat first? I believe that would more easily even out the shellac. And I'm thinking the amber shellac may benefit, at least on the first coat, by going 50/50 with denatured alcohol.
- Did Fender just use spray on lacquer and the tone darkened over time? Or in the Tweed era did they darken with amber shellac or a toner in the lacquer

I can't answer your questions as I'm not versed in this at all. However, I can share my own experience with Zinsser Bullseye clear shellack. I have a Fender Deluxe that I decided to add a couple of coats to as I noticed that the tweed seemed to be getting a bit too aged looking for a three year old amp, and I don't gig wth it. I cleaned it up first and then used a brush and applied three coats on top of what ever Fender had on there, and from your photos, mine looks like a clone of yours. I'm very happy with the colour, and finish.

I've read that a lacquer sealer coat makes applying the shellack a lot easier as the bare tweed really soaks up a lot of shellack. As a new Deluxe comes with at least one coat of something on it (presumably shellack as well), applying additional coats was a breeze.

I'm curious to know how the schematic of it differs from a stock Deluxe such that your's has no 60 cycle hum?? That would be worth doing - proving doing so didn't alter the tone in any other way.

 

[dan40]

I'm curious to know how the schematic of it differs from a stock Deluxe such that your's has no 60 cycle hum?? That would be worth doing - proving doing so didn't alter the tone in any other way.

As long as you don't copy Fender's old way of doing the filament wiring and you employ a modern grounding scheme, there should be very little hum to deal with.

Great looking build looking build "rschiller"!

 

[Jared Purdy]

As long as you don't copy Fender's old way of doing the filament wiring and you employ a modern grounding scheme, there should be very little hum to deal with.

Great looking build looking build "rschiller"!

I didn't copy anything. I bought the Custom Deluxe new, from a store. It's not a build.

 

[Powdog]

Interesting board layout, but I like it.

Shellac and lacquer love each other, makes no difference which order you apply them. But sooner or later you’ll develope your own method.

Mine: to seal the tweed I shoot the whole cab with Zinzer clear from a rattle can. Then I tint with a +\- 70/30 mix of clear to amber applied with a foam brush. Personally I like a slightly uneven look, so I go light and quickly with the tint. You can add more coats to darken the tone to your desired look. It’s hard to remove amber shellac if it goes on too thick/dark.

Once I’m happy with the tint I hit it with two coats of satin lacquer. Works for me. Call it my “nicotine tweed” finish”.

 

[fretknot]

Interesting board layout, but I like it.

Shellac and lacquer love each other, makes no difference which order you apply them. But sooner or later you’ll develope your own method.

Mine: to seal the tweed I shoot the whole cab with Zinzer clear from a rattle can. Then I tint with a +\- 70/30 mix of clear to amber applied with a foam brush. Personally I like a slightly uneven look, so I go light and quickly with the tint. You can add more coats to darken the tone to your desired look. It’s hard to remove amber shellac if it goes on too thick/dark.

Once I’m happy with the tint I hit it with two coats of satin lacquer. Works for me. Call it my “nicotine tweed” finish”.
View attachment 1226751

Nice cab.

 

[Powdog]

Nice cab.

Thanks, I crank out a lot of these. Pretty easy, big “wow” factor.

 

[rschiller]

I can't answer your questions as I'm not versed in this at all. However, I can share my own experience with Zinsser Bullseye clear shellack. I have a Fender Deluxe that I decided to add a couple of coats to as I noticed that the tweed seemed to be getting a bit too aged looking for a three year old amp, and I don't gig wth it. I cleaned it up first and then used a brush and applied three coats on top of what ever Fender had on there, and from your photos, mine looks like a clone of yours. I'm very happy with the colour, and finish.

I've read that a lacquer sealer coat makes applying the shellack a lot easier as the bare tweed really soaks up a lot of shellack. As a new Deluxe comes with at least one coat of something on it (presumably shellack as well), applying additional coats was a breeze.

I'm curious to know how the schematic of it differs from a stock Deluxe such that your's has no 60 cycle hum?? That would be worth doing - proving doing so didn't alter the tone in any other way.

If you look at the image of my circuit board, you'll notice its quite a bit different than the standard 5E3 layout. There are a lot of tweaks and circuit changes that keep the grid leads essentially as short as if wired P-to-P. A careful ground scheme is needed as are careful filament wndings. A lot of good information on that from Valve Wizard online material.

While in the 50s Fender use DC filimanet windings, which are quieter than the AC windings we use today, other aspects of Fender's ground scheme can be improved on. But in no way am I saying or implying that Leo Fender didn't create many masterpieces.

 

[dom ray mustang]

While in the 50s Fender use DC filimanet windings, which are quieter than the AC windings we use today

Really? I only have seen 50s Tweed amps where one tap of the heater lead of the PT is directly connected to ground (and also one lug of the heater connection of the tube sockets to ground) and the other tap is runnign as single wire to the sockets' lugs. It's still AC.

 

[NTC]

Really? I only have seen 50s Tweed amps where one tap of the heater lead of the PT is directly connected to ground (and also one lug of the heater connection of the tube sockets to ground) and the other tap is runnign as single wire to the sockets' lugs. It's still AC.

Agreed. There is no rectifier for the filament power - it comes straight from the transformer.

Nice cabs, folks.

 

[Jared Purdy]

If you look at the image of my circuit board, you'll notice its quite a bit different than the standard 5E3 layout. There are a lot of tweaks and circuit changes that keep the grid leads essentially as short as if wired P-to-P. A careful ground scheme is needed as are careful filament wndings. A lot of good information on that from Valve Wizard online material.

While in the 50s Fender use DC filimanet windings, which are quieter than the AC windings we use today, other aspects of Fender's ground scheme can be improved on. But in no way am I saying or implying that Leo Fender didn't create many masterpieces.

Modifying the amp is beyond my skill set. I've had it recently checked over by a quality tech and he said it was all to spec, and doing what it should do. It was purchased new in 2020, so it's a current version.

When the guitar is plugged and the controls on the amp are turned up to a level that I generally keep them at (8, 6 and 8, plugged into instrument input 1), with the volume controls on the guitar turned to 0 (and LP, Strat or Tele), the amp is dead quiet. Depending on which guitar I use, there is some hiss from the amp, though with the volume and tone controls set on the amp the way they are, I suppose that is to be expected.

Can't say I have any complaints with mine, though the only other 5E3 I've ever checked out was a Victoria 20112, and it was so close to the Fender, I decided to go with the Fender. As I implied, I'm no amp tech, but just looking at the guts of yours, it's clear that it is VERY different than a stock Fender Deluxe schematic.

 

[rschiller]

As long as you don't copy Fender's old way of doing the filament wiring and you employ a modern grounding scheme, there should be very little hum to deal with.

Great looking build looking build "rschiller"

Thank you! Fender's "old way" of filaments did have an advantage of useing 12v DC rather than 6.3v AC; the DC is quieter. Certainly the original Fender ground scheme can be improved.

Really? I only have seen 50s Tweed amps where one tap of the heater lead of the PT is directly connected to ground (and also one lug of the heater connection of the tube sockets to ground) and the other tap is runnign as single wire to the sockets' lugs. It's still AC.

Yep I"m wrong. Single ended AC.

 

[rschiller]

Modifying the amp is beyond my skill set. I've had it recently checked over by a quality tech and he said it was all to spec, and doing what it should do. It was purchased new in 2020, so it's a current version.

When the guitar is plugged and the controls on the amp are turned up to a level that I generally keep them at (8, 6 and 8, plugged into instrument input 1), with the volume controls on the guitar turned to 0 (and LP, Strat or Tele), the amp is dead quiet. Depending on which guitar I use, there is some hiss from the amp, though with the volume and tone controls set on the amp the way they are, I suppose that is to be expected.

Can't say I have any complaints with mine, though the only other 5E3 I've ever checked out was a Victoria 20112, and it was so close to the Fender, I decided to go with the Fender. As I implied, I'm no amp tech, but just looking at the guts of yours, it's clear that it is VERY different than a stock Fender Deluxe schematic.

Good to know about the Fender reissue amp. I would expect that for what they charge.

 

[NTC]

Thank you! Fender's "old way" of filaments did have an advantage of useing 12v DC rather than 6.3v AC; the DC is quieter.

Fender's old way used 6VAC from the first amps in 1946 right up to today.