50 watt Weber Mini Mass on a 50 watt Boogie

[Ed Boyd]

My favorite amp , a 50 watt Boogie I picked up in 1991 is either Loud or off. My first thought was to use my 20 watt VHT. The reverb is awful so I would need a reverb pedal, tubes, and upgrade some of the components and I still probably won't like it as much as my old Boogie. I can get the Weber 50 watt Mini Mass for about the same price as a reverb pedal alone.

The Boogie is either loud or off. Boogie had put a 220K resistor across the Master Volume pot that causes this. Mike Bendinelli at Boogie told me it was fine to disconnect the pot so I did and that gives the amp audio taper down to zero. But I found out why Boogie put that pot there. The amp sound terrible below 3 and I don't think it sounds as good since clipping off the resistor. I just want to be able to run my amp with the Master on 3 or 4. I want to undo the mod and put an attenuator on the Boogie.

I've heard that Ted said you should run a 100 watt attenuator on a 50 watt amp and I have heard that a 50 watt attentuator would be fine. I simply want to run my amp with the master on 4. I only use the clean channel and get all my dirt from pedals. I don't think I will be hitting the Weber hard.


Any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[muchxs]

Attenuators make useful power into useless heat. Heat is especially useless in electronics where it kills parts. While an attenuator is a relatively simple device, it's loaded with power resistors that run hot.

The minimass also uses a speaker motor assembly. Let's see... would you use a 50 watt speaker in your 50 watt Boogie? What do you suppose would happen?

 

[Ed Boyd]

Never thought about like that. I just want to turn the amp on in this age of quieter gentler stage levels. That stinks because I like the features on the 50 watt Mini Mass. The 100 watt model doesn't have the same Treble compensation controls.

For a 50 watt 112 Combo I use a 90 watt Celestion.

 

[Halo]

The treble boost is simply a non-polar capacitor between input and output. If you feel confident enough, you can solder it in yourself.

 

[JD0x0]

I've smoked 50 watt loads with a '46.3 watt' amp. Er on the safe side.

 

[Lynxtrap]

I wouldn't worry too much unless you're going to run the amp flat out all the time. But I would also run a 50W speaker in that amp without much hesitation, so maybe I'm just reckless by nature

 

[PCollen]

My favorite amp , a 50 watt Boogie I picked up in 1991 is either Loud or off. My first thought was to use my 20 watt VHT. The reverb is awful so I would need a reverb pedal, tubes, and upgrade some of the components and I still probably won't like it as much as my old Boogie. I can get the Weber 50 watt Mini Mass for about the same price as a reverb pedal alone.

The Boogie is either loud or off. Boogie had put a resistor across the Master Volume pot that causes this. Mike Bendinelli at Boogie told me it was fine to disconnect the pot so I did and that gives the amp audio taper down to zero. But I found out why Boogie put that pot there. The amp sound terrible below 3 and I don't think it sounds as good since clipping off the resistor. I just want to be able to run my amp with the Master on 3 or 4. I want to undo the mod and put an attenuator on the Boogie.

I've heard that Ted said you should run a 100 watt attenuator on a 50 watt amp and I have heard that a 50 watt attentuator would be fine. I simply want to run my amp with the master on 4. I only use the clean channel and get all my dirt from pedals. I don't think I will be hitting the Weber hard.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

The 50 watt attenuator will work fine if you don't crank the amplifier. Respect the attenuator and keep the Master and the Pre-gain down at reasonable levels.

 

[muchxs]

I wouldn't worry too much unless you're going to run the amp flat out all the time. But I would also run a 50W speaker in that amp without much hesitation, so maybe I'm just reckless by nature

The 50 watt attenuator will work fine if you don't crank the amplifier. Respect the attenuator and keep the Master and the Pre-gain down at reasonable levels.

There are all sorts of ways to build a toneless unreliable rig. We don't need to go searching for them.

No one uses an attenuator while keeping their master and pre gain down at conservative levels! That's a recipe for audio excrement.

Here's the thing:

An attenuator isn't doing anything until it's dissipating half your power. Think about it. 50% power through the same speaker(s) is 3db attenuation. That's not much attenuation but you're still dissipating half your power. Bet you end up running it far less conservatively. I'm thinking it will often see somewhere between half and full power.

 

[RLee77]

An attenuator isn't doing anything until it's dissipating half your power. Think about it. 50% power through the same speaker(s) is 3db attenuation. That's not much attenuation but you're still dissipating half your power. Bet you end up running it far less conservatively. I'm thinking it will often see somewhere between half and full power.

+1 Yeah, the tendency will be to turn up to see how much better just a little more power will sound.
The frustrating thing is, the resistors in the attenuator can handle the current; the issue is they can't get rid of the heat fast enough when run at full power continuously.

 

[grolan1]

Is it that you don't like attenuator's or just the fact the 50 watt Weber is so small for this amp?

 

[Ed Boyd]

I took a closer look at the 100 watt Mass and I think it will do all the same things.

It looks like it has dual rheostats. One primary they call bass and one to compensate for any treble loss. The 50 just has a switch to select between 0db / 3db / 6db treble compensation. The 50 watt demo vids sounded OK. I can't find any 100 watt demos.

PS - I run my amps using strictly clean headroom on the clean channel. All my dirt comes from either a Sparkle Drive or Rat or Wampler Pinnacle.

 

[PCollen]

I took a closer look at the 100 watt Mass and I think it will do all the same things.

It looks like it has dual rheostats. One primary they call bass and one to compensate for any treble loss. The 50 just has a switch to select between 0db / 3db / 6db treble compensation. The 50 watt demo vids sounded OK. I can't find any 100 watt demos.

PS - I run my amps using strictly clean headroom on the clean channel. All my dirt comes from either a Sparkle Drive or Rat or Wampler Pinnacle.

If the 100 Watt version is within your budget, then by all means get it. Better safe than sorry, in the long run.

 

[grolan1]

I had the Weber Mass 50 and it was a solid unit. I still have the Weber Z-Matcher that I use often but I've found I like the Power Plug attenuator's better. Will work with any amp (ohms), Guitar Player Editors Pick award for its transparency and the ability to go down to -30db. Granted you don't have the bass/treble controls, but never found a need for them as I just adjusted my amp to fit the amount of attenuation I was using at the time.

 

[JD0x0]

Is it that you don't like attenuator's or just the fact the 50 watt Weber is so small for this amp?

50 watt attenuator is underrated for a 50 watt tube amp, IMO/IME, and a '50 watt' amp is potentially capable of peaking at a significantly higher wattage than what the amp is rated at from the factory. Those little resistors can't dissipate the heat quickly enough. By 'not cranking the amp' in order to save the underpowered attenuator, you're basically working against what you're going for using an attenuator in the first place, and probably degrading the tone, too.

I have '50 watt' amps that will cook '50 watt' loads in a couple minutes with the master @ 9:00. I've also smelled my '60 watt' speakers starting to burn up with '50 watt' amps. Better safe than sorry.

 

[Lynxtrap]

A key question here is also what's up with that amp and the master volume. Having to use an attenuator just to be able to play the amp at a usable level is not normal. What Boogie is this?

 

[Ed Boyd]

DC-5. The 220k resistor across the Master Volume pot removes the audio taper at the bottom. You can't hear it .... then it is loud. It sounds good though but a little too loud.

 

[nikola]

I have the 50w Weber mass for use with my DSL40C. On the occassion when I have the master on 7 in Lead 1 in 40w mode, the attenuator gets too hot to touch.

I would imagine that would not be good for it..

Since then it is used on 20W mode and I can crank the amp no problem

 

[Ed Boyd]

Thanks. I will go with a 100 watt attenuator if I get one. I found a demo vid of the 100 watt Mass Lite and it had adequate high end.

 

[Ed Boyd]

My amp guys dislikes Weber attenuators. He is building an attenuator based on a Kendrick product. It is well heat sinked and beefed up to be rated at about 120 watts. It is metal case that mounts inside the combo and is always connected. It has two switches Both off the attenuator is completely bypassed. One switch on it is -6db cut and two switches on it is a -12db cut. I'm expecting to just be running it in -6db mode.