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5-way rotary switch for phase/series/parallel

Discussion in 'Just Pickups' started by saemola, Jan 20, 2021.

  1. saemola

    saemola TDPRI Member

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    I was considering adding a Goldo 5-way rotary switch to my Tele Deluxe with a Lace Sensor Dually Red-Red at the bridge. Considering I want to retain the standard toggle for pickup switching and that my guitar is wired with only 1 volume and 1 tone, could I use it to achieve the following things at each position?
    1 - in parallel, in phase
    2 - in parallel, in phase, only front Lace coil on
    3 - in parallel, in phase, only back Lace coil on
    4 - in parallel, out of phase
    5 - in serie, out of phase


    https://www.goeldo.de/en/luthier-s-...7/goeldo-vario-rotary-switch/5-positions?c=56

    Also, since I’m only going to use 3 out of 4 pots, any idea on what to do with the fourth one?
     
  2. dogmeat

    dogmeat Friend of Leo's

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    yes, you should be able to do that. as for the extra knob.... maybe a Red Rhodes (or was it Sneeky Pete?). put a wire on the center tap and take it to a pot. take the output of the pot to ground. you can dial in as much "single coil" as you like
     
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  3. saemola

    saemola TDPRI Member

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    Fantastic. Do you know where I could find a diagram for it or how to educate myself on coming up with one?
     
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  4. dogmeat

    dogmeat Friend of Leo's

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    I went looking for it & not much out there. it was Red Rhodes' idea that he apparently sold to Peavey. I don't remember when I heard about it but it was when he was still alive (he passed in2015). I did it to one pup on a 335 and liked it. think I used a 250k pot. simple really.. wire the center tap to one terminal on the pot, take the middle terminal to ground. the 3rd terminal isn't used, no other parts required. and you can switch & put the CT on the middle if you like

    edit: Peavey may have called it Spin a Split, so I searched that and quickly found this...

    https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/latest-updates/guitar-wiring-explored-the-spin-a-split-mod
     
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  5. saemola

    saemola TDPRI Member

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    My bad, I was actually asking about wiring the 5 way rotary for the 5 options I listed.
    Any clue on that?
     
  6. Deaf Eddie

    Deaf Eddie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    OK. let me restate your request, and see if I understand it:

    You want to use the 5-way rotary to configure the two coils of the bridge Lace Sensor...?
    You would like to play that pickup with its coils like this:

    1 - Coils in parallel
    2 - front Lace coil only
    3 - back Lace coil only
    4 - Coils in parallel, out of phase with the other pickup
    5 - Coils in series, out of phase with the other pickup

    IF that's correct, let us know and I'll see if I can draw it up for you.
     
  7. saemola

    saemola TDPRI Member

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    Eddie,

    assuming that:
    - coils in parallel is the standard for a humbucker (sorry, I’m pretty ignorant in the matter, if the standard is in series then this is wrong)
    - by point 2 and 3 you mean that I can still use the three way switch to select between the two pickups, but with the Lace being in front/back coil only

    ... then this is all correct excerpt for number 5, where I actually want the two pickups to be in series, not the coils.

    to recap:
    1- Both pickups in their standard configuration, in parallel neck humbucker, bridge (Lace) humbucker, selectable N/NB/B with the three way switch
    2- Neck standard, bridge (Lace) front coil only, selectable N/NB/B with the three way switch
    3- Neck standard, bridge (Lace) back coil only, selectable N/NB/B with the three way switch
    4- Both pickups in their standard configuration, in series neck humbucker, bridge (Lace) humbucker, selectable N/NB/B with the three way switch
    5- Both pickups in their standard configuration, in series, out of phase neck humbucker, bridge (Lace) humbucker, selectable N/NB/B with the three way switch.

    Thank you so much!
     
  8. Deaf Eddie

    Deaf Eddie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Actually, humbuckers are wired with the coils in series (standard).
    Would you like to change your recap top indicate that?

    As indicated now:

    #1 is the bridge pup with its coils in SERIES (standard/series)

    #2 bridge front coil only

    #3 bridge back coil only

    #4 bridge pickup (standard/series) in series with the neck pickup

    #5 has the bridge pickup (standard/series), wired in series and out of phase with the neck pickup.

    If you want the bridge coils-parallel in any of the throws, say so.

    ALL still use the 3-way pup selector, with the proviso that with #5, the bridge pickup will be shunted in the middle throw of the 3-way - so it will go N / N / B-series-oop with neck. No way around that.

    Is your bridge pickup the newer five lead model?

    Confirm this, and I'll start drawing.
     
  9. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    Is this like a Vari-tone switch?
     
  10. Deaf Eddie

    Deaf Eddie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    "Is this like a Vari-tone switch?"

    ONLY in that it's a rotary switch - no caps or inductors...

    It's just a switch that we will use to configure the coils of the bridge pickup. It could be done with a couple of p/p or mini-toggles.
     
  11. NoTeleBob

    NoTeleBob Tele-Holic

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    A Sneeky Pete is still $50 downtown.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    So, a Vari-tone is a collection of high and low pass presets? Is out-of-phase (or polarity) one of the functions in a Varitone?
     
  13. Deaf Eddie

    Deaf Eddie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    "So, a Vari-tone is a collection of high and low pass presets? Is out-of-phase (or polarity) one of the functions in a Varitone?"

    Not quite. There's no phase option on a Varitone.
    From a Gibson webpage:

    "Although a rotary design like a so-called “pot,” Gibson calls it the Varitone “switch.” Below the chicken-head knob lies a notch filter with six separate capacitors soldered to switch decks. The first position (1 on the dial) is true bypass, allowing the signal to go straight to the volume pot from the pickup, with no resistors or capacitors in the way. The other five steps on the switch remove certain frequency ranges, offering EQ “maps” that are set.

    So unlike the regular passive tone pots elsewhere on your guitar, the Varitone doesn’t act as a low-pass filter, it’s effectively a notch filter. It takes preset slices out of the midrange. The result is a selection of tones that are increasingly more “nasal” than their full-fat bypass equivalents. If you’re into the science:

    - A 1.5H choke is housed beneath the treble pickup and it fixes the range of the notch.

    - Position 1 on the Varitone switch is the bypass.

    - Positions 2-6 traditionally cycle through 1000pF, 3000pF, 0.01μF, 0.03μF, and 0.22μF capacitors.

    - Each cap is paired with a 10M resistor to avoid “pops” when you’re switching from position to position.
     
  14. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    Got it, thanks.
     
  15. saemola

    saemola TDPRI Member

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    Thanks for clarifying that HB’s coils are usually wired in series and for explaining the limitations of the in series OOP position. No problem with that.
    It all sounds great, except that for #4 I’d like the two pickups to still be parallel, but out of phase.
    I don’t need a position with the pickup coils in parallel.

    And just to clarify, I assumed position 1 to be the pot rotated fully clockwise and position 5 to be fully counterclockwise.

    I just bought the Lace and it does have 5 wires.

    My guitar will be equipped with a TBX tone pot, but I was actually considering adding a Varitone in the future, assuming there is a way to have a “true bypass” position on the Varitone so as to only use the TBX.

    I also had another strange idea with the as of now fourth unused pot: replacing it with an input jack for an expression pedal to control the phase of the two pickups. Sounds crazy? The fact that I haven’t found a single mention of this all over the web makes me think it might be.

    Thank you for taking the time Eddie!
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  16. dogmeat

    dogmeat Friend of Leo's

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    hey... I got one of those in a box of trade goods. an old one. all orange drops...

    anyway, back to the switch problem. a 5 position rotary (5 throw) probably with 3 poles, maybe 4. I've wired a few experimental guitars with rotaries. the thing I'm not sure of is:

    "my guitar is wired with only 1 volume and 1 tone, could I use it to achieve the following things at each position?"

    do you want the 5 options when the 3 way is at any normal position? (some of which are counter to the selection?)

    or do you mean (I think) that you want the V & T pots to work on all selections?

    one good way to achieve the latter is to have a 6 position rotary. position 1 gives all normal functions. the remaining 5 positions (throws) are easily wired.

    edit: your condition 1 - in phase, in parallel is the normal middle position on the 3 way. if I understand your intentions, the flipping of in/out of phase, and mixing coils can be done by the rotary. this would work with a 5 throw. 1 for normal 3 way option, the other 4 positions for the mixed coils
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  17. saemola

    saemola TDPRI Member

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    If I’m understanding all you are saying, you are correct, V and T should always work and position 1 on the rotary is essentially a “rotary bypass” position, cause in rotary position 1 the guitar and the three way switch would work as if the rotary wasn’t there.
    Position 2 and 3 are still “standard”, except in only using one coil of the Lace.
    Position 4 and 5 are both out of phase, with 5 also placing the pickups in series.
     
  18. Deaf Eddie

    Deaf Eddie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    "If I’m understanding all you are saying, you are correct, V and T should always work and position 1 on the rotary is essentially a “rotary bypass” position, cause in rotary position 1 the guitar and the three way switch would work as if the rotary wasn’t there.
    Position 2 and 3 are still “standard”, except in only using one coil of the Lace.
    Position 4 and 5 are both out of phase, with 5 also placing the pickups in series."


    I think we're on the same page now. See if you can work from this simple drawing:

    upload_2021-1-22_10-40-15.png
    Note that the series pair (WHITE and BLACK WITH ORANGE) are tied together as indicated, and go to a common lug on the top wafer. The BLUE line from the rotary goes WITH the neck hot on the 3-way.

    The rest of the circuit - 3-way, volume, tone - are basically independent from the 5-way, which only affects the bridge pickup. You could add a Varitone, TBX, whatever...

    Be sure to let us know how (if ?!?) this works for you.

    Any questions?
     

    Attached Files:

  19. saemola

    saemola TDPRI Member

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    Eddie, this is fantastic and crystal clear.
    I'll have the rotary in 1-2 weeks and will definitely report back.
    Thank you!

    EDIT
    Only one question: should I just separate the Black&White from the Green cable, since they are soldered together on my Lace?
    IMG_6133.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
  20. AmpHandle

    AmpHandle TDPRI Member

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    Use the unused position as an OFF switch.. Then you can toggle as an effect. Better yet put it in the frontal position. Not sure about wiring it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
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