5 Way Push/Pull tone Wiring 2 Pickups

bixquick33

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Hi All,

I have been working on my guitar trying to get a wiring schematic to work and everything I have tried so far is not working as expected. Need some help in figuring this thing out. This is my current setup that I am trying to wire. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated!
20220811_153226.jpg
 

Deaf Eddie

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What are you trying to get out of it? Can't tell you what to do until we know what you want.

BTW, that model 5-way (standard Strat style) probably won't do anything special for you on a two-pickup guitar. To get some different tones out of two pickups, you need a 24-lug superswitch 5-way. Your other choices are the standard Tele 3-way and the Fender 4-way. Both of those can utilize the push pull for a phase option; the 3-way can give you a series OR a phase (OR series/out of phase) option.
 

bixquick33

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What are you trying to get out of it? Can't tell you what to do until we know what you want.

BTW, that model 5-way (standard Strat style) probably won't do anything special for you on a two-pickup guitar. To get some different tones out of two pickups, you need a 24-lug superswitch 5-way. Your other choices are the standard Tele 3-way and the Fender 4-way. Both of those can utilize the push pull for a phase option; the 3-way can give you a series OR a phase (OR series/out of phase) option.
This is my first wiring job and I'm learning as I go right now but I guess I was hoping for something like this:

1. Neck
2. Neck Push Bridge Pull
3. Neck-Bridge
4. Bridge Push Neck Pull
5. Bridge

Does something like that work? I guess I'm not really sure now.
 

Deaf Eddie

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1. Neck
2. Neck Push Bridge Pull
3. Neck-Bridge
4. Bridge Push Neck Pull
5. Bridge


You need to explain what you mean in throws #2 and #4. It doesn't LOOK like you are gaining. anything

Those throws are not independent - they are just an in-between stop that connects two of the lugs (one of the end lugs to the middle lug). On a Strat, where you have the bridge, middle, and neck each on a lug, it combines the bridge and mid; and mid and neck. There's no "independent selection" for those throws, they simply "share" the lugs. For that you need a superswitch.

There are some schemes for your 5-way in a two-pickup Tele...
 
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bixquick33

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1. Neck
2. Neck Push Bridge Pull
3. Neck-Bridge
4. Bridge Push Neck Pull
5. Bridge


You need to explain what you mean in throws #2 and #4. It doesn't LOOK like you are gaining. anything

Those throws are not independent - they are just an in-between stop that connects two of the lugs (one of the end lugs to the middle lug). On a Strat, where you have the bridge, middle, and neck each on a lug, it combines the bridge and mid; and mid and neck. There's no "independent selection" for those throws, they simply "share" the lugs. For that you need a superswitch.

There are some schemes for your 5-way in a two-pickup Tele...
Would you recommend I do the Anderton or the modified anderton? Thank you so much, I think I really needed some kind of direction. This is brand new for me. Do you know of another diagram of how I would wire in the push pull pot and volume pot to one of those 5 way diagrams?
 

bixquick33

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Check out this thread with a similar question.
Hi Eddie, got another question for you if I were to get a 24 lug 5 way superswitch and a middle pickup and tried to do like a fat Nash setup, can I use the volume pot and the push pull tone pot that I already have? Is the Fat Nash something that would be doable with those added components?
 

Deaf Eddie

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I am unfamiliar with a "Fat Nashville" custom setup, other than it usually has a full-sized humbucker in the neck spot. I am not aware of what the unmodded circuit looks like, but I would assume is uses the standard Strat-style 5-way. Again, you need to tell us what you want the 5-way and p/p or toggles to do. More info required to give a useable answer...
 

bixquick33

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I am unfamiliar with a "Fat Nashville" custom setup, other than it usually has a full-sized humbucker in the neck spot. I am not aware of what the unmodded circuit looks like, but I would assume is uses the standard Strat-style 5-way. Again, you need to tell us what you want the 5-way and p/p or toggles to do. More info required to give a useable answer...
Up (Nashville Tele Mode)
1. Bridge
2. Middle & Bridge (Parallel)
3. Neck & Bridge (Parallel)
4. Neck & Middle (Parallel)
5. Neck
Down (Fat Nash Mode):
1. Bridge
2. Middle & Bridge in Series
3. Neck & Bridge in Series
4. Neck & Middle in Series
5. Neck

If I was trying to achieve something like this would I be able to do that with a superswitch and push pull tone pot?
 

Deaf Eddie

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Here's a quick and dirty edit to a similar Strat scheme I drew up years ago...
You could also use a p/p instead of the on/on 2-way toggle. Check it out:

1660847918571.png


You get everything you wanted EXCEPT throw #3 in the series combos. Try as I might, I couldn't figure out how to get the bridge and neck in series with this scheme, because that's been one of my favorite Strat combos. There's just not enough "switch power."
 

bixquick33

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Hi Deaf Eddy I finally got everything. Thank you for drawing up the schematics I really appreciate it! However, I'm having some issues. I have it wired up exactly the same way, but I'm getting only sound on switch positions 1,3 and no sound on 2,4,5. For 1 and 3 all the pickups are on. There appears to be power on all the pickups at each switch point. Was wondering if you have some trouble shooting ideas for me to try.
processed-dcefd53b-bb74-4345-8303-a6cae185ab08_DJwROcXh.jpeg
 

Deaf Eddie

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Is there something in the drawing that is not clear to you?

I have no idea how you are getting that result. The middle pickup's hot is only connected to the volume pot in throws 2 and 4 when the p/p is "in." No way it's sounding on the throws 1 and 3.

I'd clean off the 5-way and start over. All those same-color-wire jumper loops make it look like spaghetti - no offense meant, but it makes it impossible to see what's going on with your wiring in that picture. Try to wire it without all those loops - get some 22-gauge solid wire, strip the insulation off the end, and run the bare wire through the adjacent lugs that are to supposed to be connected on the 5-way. That's how I build them.
 

bixquick33

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I thought I understood everything and the diagram looked perfect to what I read on how superswitches and p/p's work. No offense taken, I sent it going maybe he will see something maybe not and it totally looks like spaghetti. I think I did something wrong though. My first thought is my neck pickup has three wires and wondering if I put the third one in the wrong location. Wondering if I have the switch or P/P wired in backwards. Here is exactly how I have it currently wired. Hopefully this easy for you to read. If not and I can make changes.
Guitar Wiring.jpg
 

Deaf Eddie

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It would help if you told me the brand/model of the pickups you are using. IF you tell me the color code for your pickups, I can edit your drawing to match that color code, and that should help a lot. I'll make some tweaks to clarify your drawing, using the color code you used, plus another color or two. I find it confusing that you chose yellow for ground and black for hot, but here goes:

Looking at your drawing, it looks mostly OK, so I think the issue is that you have mis-identified the neck's three leads. The RED line in MY drawing SHOULD represent the ground/shield lead (NOT the negative lead) independent of the negative lead. If that's the case, it should go to ground, back of the volume pot; the yellow should go to the 5-way.

IF you don't have the documentation to clarify this, you can test for it by checking the red line for continuity with the black or yellow lines from the neck pickup. If MY assumption is correct, it should have NO continuity with either of these leads - so, red to ground, yellow to the 5-way. IF you DO get a reading, we'll need to figure out what's up with the neck pickup. It could be as simple as swapping the red for yellow.

1662582131651.png


In your color code:

The BLACK line should be the pickup hots.

The YELLOW line from the bridge and neck SHOULD BOTH BE the pickups' NEGATIVE lead. They both go on the 1st common lug (top left in the drawing) of the 5-way. In the case of the bridge, it is also the ground lead.

For the mid pickup, the RED should represent the ground lead.

Check that neck pickup and tell me what you get.
 

bixquick33

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Fender Texas Special Custom Shop Tele Pickups and Seymour Duncan Texas Hot Middle Antiquity. Sorry, for some reason it isn't letting me post links. Keeps saying its spam. Sorry about not providing that earlier. In guitar wiring is Black usually ground and Yellow usually positive lead? I'm used to black being the positive charge. Fender diagram is confusing.
 

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Deaf Eddie

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Oh boy. That would have been great info to start with...

If you had all Fender pickups, their convention is to use the white as hot, the black as ground (and/or negative) and the yellow - if present - is the ground/shield for the neck's cover.

Same color code for Seymour Duncan (because it's a single coil - their humbuckers do use black as hot, but not their single coils). BUT, Fender pickups are manufactured out of phase to every other brand, so you have to wire the SD out of phase to get the pickups to all play IN phase.

So... the BLACK leads (ground/negative) from both your Fenders go to lug 1 (common) on the 5-way; the whites (hots) go to the common lugs on the ends of the lower two poles, and the yellow (cover ground/shield lead) goes to ground on the back of the volume pot.

To reverse the phase of the SD mid pup, its white should go to ground on the back of the volume pot and its black goes to the middle lug on the p/p.

I'll have a new edit for you tomorrow. DO not use my previous edit, unless you understand how to translate the colors correctly.
 
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Deaf Eddie

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This should match your pickups' color code. Note that the SD is wired out of phase to play IN phase with the Fenders. IF it sounds out of phase when you're done, reverse ONLY the SD black and white leads.
1662650604862.png


Let us know how it goes.
 




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