410 + 115 vs 212 + 115 ?

Discussion in 'The BASS Place' started by Hey_you, Oct 1, 2020.

  1. Hey_you

    Hey_you Tele-Holic

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    My Reeves 225 is now being built. I want your opinions. I understand the 10's are tight and have punch, as opposed to 12's. I have also read tho, 12's can deliver. What I want to hear from either combination, is a blending of the two, to form a bigger, fuller sound. I am not able to describe better. Sorry. I think there are those here that "hear" what I mean. Thanks. I am leaning towards the 12's. I do not gig. Damn, I have no others to play with, yet. This is for my dream music room. Hey! If I meet others down the road, I'll join in.! ( a performing group, that is)
     
  2. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Both are big and full. I think 4 x 10 is bigger than 2 x 12 to my ears, amazing how the lower mids and lows dominate even with 4 x 10 light duty speakers. The con to that may be it's hard to get that full sound out if it's too much for you.
    But hard to go wrong with 2 x 12 too. I think with 2 x 12 you want heavier more robust speakers than you need with 4 x 10.
    OTOH, there are tons of 12" speakers to choose from.
    Not gigging I dont think you need either .
     
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  3. brookdalebill

    brookdalebill Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    I like my 2-12 rig.
    It has enough of everything I look for, and is not too big, or “boomy”.
    I’m a polite old guy though.
    Your results may vary.
     
  4. TwoBear

    TwoBear TDPRI Member

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    Are you talking about a 410 cabinet plus a 115 versus a 212 and 115?, Like the 1x15 is a constant and you want to know about adding a 410 or a 212 to that?
    If so I've played a Super Reverb most of my (gigging) life, so I'm definitely partial to four tens, but more so the important part for me is the types of speakers, and any chance I get I like to have different kinds in the same cabinet. To me it's sort of like having a choir, the more voices the fuller it sounds. And gives you more option when you place microphones, either live or recording. I guess I should figure out exactly what you're asking before I go adding anything more ha!
     
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  5. fidopunk

    fidopunk Tele-Holic Gold Supporter

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    Since we’re talking bass, the correct answer is a 2x10” (or 4x10” if you’re a loon like me) AND. A 1x15”. The modern version of this is a 2x12” with neo drivers. Best of both worlds, smaller, lighter, and only one trip from the truck to the stage.
     
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  6. Hey_you

    Hey_you Tele-Holic

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    One 410 cab and one 115 cab. Or one 212 cab and one 115 cab. Of course, the speaker "sound" is selective to each. I ain't going there in my question. I am wondering the combination of the the two cabinets creating one "sound". Synergy thing. I am very limited to go hear for myself due to global concerns. Also, I would have to drive many miles to find an outlet with a decent stock of choices.
    I am going with Reeves 115 cab. It's the other I need to define a choice for.
    Also, I would want to be able to attenuate the 15 for balance. Idk what options I will have there. I have "Critical" ears where sound is concerned. Balance is critical for my hearing desires. You know what I mean.
     
  7. Hey_you

    Hey_you Tele-Holic

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    Aye. what I listed was really the model designation per manufacturer cabinet
     
  8. ZenGuitarist

    ZenGuitarist Tele-Afflicted

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    I have a Fender Rumble 500 with 2x10s and an extension cabinet also with 2x10s. What me and other people with this configuration have figured out is that it sounds the best to stack the two on top of each other. There's some acoustic coupling or magical mojo that happens when you set them up that way versus side by side like a typical 4x10 cabinet arrangement.

    Rumble500.jpg
     
  9. Lawdawg

    Lawdawg Tele-Afflicted

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    I'm far from an expert on bass cabs so my $.2 isn't even worth that, but the bassist in my old band played through a 4x10 cab and I loved that sound. Plenty of low end authority but great clarity and punch in the mids. For me the combination of a 4x10 + 1x15 cab sounds ideal for a versatile bass rig.
     
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  10. SomeGuyNamedRob

    SomeGuyNamedRob Tele-Meister

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    I would do a 4x10 plus a 2x12 myself.
     
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  11. PaulNYC

    PaulNYC TDPRI Member

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    I prefer not to mix cabs of different designs when they are carrying the same signals. I'm concerned with phasing.

    I also like a vertical array. However; individually all the cabs can be great.
     
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  12. Hey_you

    Hey_you Tele-Holic

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    Yeah. I messeged Bill concerning 2x12 bass cabinet build. I think I was confusing it with his 2x12 guitar cab tho. If it comes down to 4x10 I'll get his also.
     
  13. black_doug

    black_doug Friend of Leo's

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    I like a 4x10. You don’t really need anything else.
     
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  14. mexicanyella

    mexicanyella Tele-Afflicted

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    You can’t correlate speaker diameter alone to qualities like tight, punch, deep, bright etc. Any of the common speaker diameters used in bass amplification are available with any of those attributes. The enclosure is a bigger deal than the diameter.

    What you can correlate to diameter is beaminess of upper frequency dispersal. A 15 will tend to get less-even dispersal (more beaming) as you go higher and higher in frequency, when compared to a smaller-diameter speaker. You have a tradeoff between moving more air and even sound distribution across its frequency response.

    People think “Hey, PA speakers combine a big LF driver, a smaller mid driver and a horn or tweeter for a full sound; I oughta do that with my bass rig too!” While possibly forgetting that the PA speaker is fed a MUCH wider spectrum than a bass cab, and its drivers are each only getting slices of that, separated via a crossover network.

    Sometimes mixed-driver bass rigs sound great, but when it happens it’s a happy accident. You run a risk of introducing comb-filtering artifacts when you mix drivers at low frequencies. You can’t generalize...you have to try the specific combination and see.

    A better bet is to find a cab you like, then reinforce it with another one just like it.
     
  15. PaulNYC

    PaulNYC TDPRI Member

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    Check out the Bill Fitzmaurice cabinets web site forum. A lot of discussion about cabinet design. Talkbass.com as well.
     
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  16. Bassman8

    Bassman8 Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    I'm probably of of the few who uses 2 15" speakers. These days it's identical neo cabinets I stack. What can I say...I like'em.
     
  17. Hey_you

    Hey_you Tele-Holic

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    I wish I could get out and have a listen. That is a big challenge atm.I have not a clue bout this. But I am thinking, if the 15" can be attenuated, I can dial in a "bestest" sound. I have no id if or how it can be done.That brings into question if the Ohms rating would change tho. It's not a powered cab, but I am hoping there would be a way attenuate at the input jack of the cabinet. I am not around the music environment to have a clue. Plus I am just getting started in this hobby.
     
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  18. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I'd get a 2x10 to go with the 1x15.
    Tens are worth having for bass I think, unless the bass sound you prefer to make is more old timey.
    At home certainly and even most any venue, do you really need FOUR tens plus 1x15?
    Maybe listen to some cabs with your bass & amp to decide.

    Is the Reeves a tube head?
    Edit: checked out the Reeves head, 4xkt88! I played a Harry Joyce 100 through a Hiwatt 4x12 bass cab a bunch of times, IDK you really need to hear the cabs not choose them by speaker size. The cab belonged to a bass player who gigged it but it was in his shop with the guitar amp. I sold him my 1970 Marshall Super Bass to use with that cab.
    He had it loaded with custom emi 12s ordered by a local bass amp builder, and I bought a new quad of those same speakers for guitar.
    Just depends on the sounds you want.

    Listen to the cabs, you're not buying a bread & butter bass head here.
    Listen listen listen then buy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
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  19. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    That head puts out like 260 watts!
    You want to attenuate enough to get the amp to distort?
    At home friendly volume?
    I'd skip the attenuator thing, it will sound great, play it don't buy extra products to make it sound good.

    If you can't try any cabs, I'd say but a 2x10 and see how you like it, but the cab youbuy needs to be the same impedance as the 1x15 you're already getting. I assume the 15 is a 16ohm cab so buy whatever second cab in 16ohms.
     
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  20. mexicanyella

    mexicanyella Tele-Afflicted

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    My gut tells me hey, no need to hurry into a cab purchase given that you’re waiting for a pretty high-end amp head build. That is GAS at its sneakiest, making you jump the gun.

    Get the head and then go try it out with stuff. Otherwise you run a really high risk of having this great head hobbled by a subpar speaker combination.

    Also: if you’re just getting into it, how loud do you need to be? A four-KT88-powered tube head through any cab(s) that can handle the wattage and are impedance-compatible will rattle the HVAC system out of your house. Pre-pandemic, I was playing bass in a LOUD trio—mostly in a big, finished, carpeted basement—with 210 watts through four 8s and I had to watch items on a shelf near my cab because they would migrate toward the edge and fall off. For real.

    A possible problem with combining a single 15 cab with a multiple
    10 or 12 cab is, half your wattage is going to be pushing that 15 pretty hard while the multiple drivers in the other cab will be sharing the other half, loafing by comparison. As you turn up, you might not hear the 15’s warning signs of imminent failure because the four 10s or two 12s will still be in their happy zone and will drown it out.

    But that’s all theoretical. To make an informed purchase with bass cabs, you absolutely must play through the actual bass cabs with your gear and hear them in action. Even with a ton of bass playing and gigging experience to inform you and form sort of a mental baseline, that would be highly advisable. Gotta find a way to do that.
     
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