40,000-year-old wolf's head found.

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by johnny k, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. johnny k

    johnny k Friend of Leo's

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  2. cc50fralin

    cc50fralin Tele-Meister

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    Who is Wonder Woman talking to in my Avatar?

    I have no comment. :D

    Seriously, that's a very interesting article.

    Mike
     
  3. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    A quart or a gallon ? Frank found it right ?
     
  4. cc50fralin

    cc50fralin Tele-Meister

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    Here's the full size image.
    _IGP0041-3.jpg
    And here's a wolfie cutting loose. Merriment and mirth, baby! :D
    Mike
    _IGP0063 (2).jpg
     
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  5. rcole_sooner

    rcole_sooner Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Very cool!
     
  6. TheGoodTexan

    TheGoodTexan Moderator Staff Member Ad Free Member

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    Honest question (not trolling). How are they able to estimate the age of it? ...differentiate it from a modern wolf?
     
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  7. Boubou

    Boubou Doctor of Teleocity Gold Supporter

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    The date on the dog tag
    I would guess carbon dating
     
  8. TheGoodTexan

    TheGoodTexan Moderator Staff Member Ad Free Member

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    I just wondered if the carbon dating process (which I know nothing about) is distorted by the permafrost.
     
  9. trapdoor2

    trapdoor2 Tele-Holic Gold Supporter

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    I saw some show (last year?) where they recovered this head, along with the lion cub and lots of other crazy stuff. The market for frozen animals is driving the locals to go to great lengths to uncover such things...legally or illegally. Most of the ones I've seen are digging into the permafrost with high-pressure water (firehoses). Mastodon ivory is worth a lot.

    They estimate age based on a variety of things, position in the permafrost (looking at the layers of dirt, estimating age of deposit, etc.), carbon dating, etc. Quite sure they'll investigate this head down to the last molecule and determine how it relates to modern, living examples. The scientists go thru a lot of calculations to get a good date. I'm sure they have offsets for permafrost. How they "know" they have the right date...? They get really close, I imagine.
     
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  10. teletimetx

    teletimetx Poster Extraordinaire

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    Here's a pretty good article on how carbon dating works. It's based on the ratio of C14 present (see article) and provides a relatively accurate estimate of when an organism died.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating
     
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  11. Boubou

    Boubou Doctor of Teleocity Gold Supporter

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    They also found similar wolf parts before so that gives them a range i guess
     
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  12. Cysquatch

    Cysquatch Tele-Meister

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    Couldn't say on this exact instance, but they can sample the ice it was frozen in and compare it to deep ice cores. Aside from carbon dating, ice cores have a kind of stratified quality like you might see in a soil sample, except the way the "layers" are delineated is based on the annual layers from seasonal melt/refreeze cycles and the amount of certain trace gasses that are present in them, especially in deeper/older samples. Oxygen, methane, and I think nitrogen are some of the big markers they look at.

    Basically, we know from different cores what kind of atmosphere was being captured at the surface when that ice froze, so these become a"ruler" of sorts and you just measure other ice against it.

    Overly simplified and probably misremembering a little, but Environmental Geology 202 is about the only thing I remember from college.
     
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  13. Cysquatch

    Cysquatch Tele-Meister

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  14. scout2112

    scout2112 Tele-Holic

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    Wonder if they could clone it... bring it back to life?
     
  15. drf64

    drf64 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    upload_2019-6-18_10-48-53.jpeg
     
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  16. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    40,000 years b.p. is at the cusp of radiocarbon dating limits. C-14 values won't be affected by the permafrost itself, rather it's the variations between other large carbon reservoirs that need to be accounted for. Combine absolute dating with stratigraphic data and previous wolf discoveries would also be used to assess the age of the wolf.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
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  17. memorex

    memorex Friend of Leo's

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    I would imagine that the accuracy of carbon dating has been affected by all the above ground nuclear testing that took place in the 1950-60s.
     
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  18. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    If we wanted to radiocarbon a 60s Telecaster in 500 years, then yes, the C-14 quantities would be more than what they should be because of bomb effect carbon. Testing did not affect C-14 levels in past organic material globally, but contamination from modern carbon is possible if samples are not handled and processed correctly.
     
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  19. rcole_sooner

    rcole_sooner Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    The hardest part of relicing a guitar is adjusting those C-14 molecules.
     
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  20. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    All those relic people got it wrong, they need to set off nuclear bombs to get the steel and wood just right for magic toan. ;)
     
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