4-Way, With A Twist? Please Help.

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by The Ballzz, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. The Ballzz

    The Ballzz Tele-Afflicted

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    Hi Folks, Especially @moosie & @Deaf Eddie ,
    I already have a properly working 4-way in my Tele, but want to add a twist, if possible. I want to use a stacked 250K/500K volume pot, not dual concentric, simply on the same shaft/knob. While I'm at least fairly electrically savvy, multi-switch combos often confuse me! :confused: I want the three stock Tele switch positions to feed the 250K portion of the volume pot and hust the series/humbucker position to feed the 500K portion. Can I even get there from here? o_O

    Here's my preferred switch position order:
    1) Bridge only
    2) Bridge/Neck in parallel
    3) Neck only
    4) Bridge/Neck in series
    There is a slight variation that I'd like to also try, as long as it doesn't require re-inventing the wheel. That would be having the Bridge/Neck in parallel also feed that 500K pot portion.
     
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  2. Deaf Eddie

    Deaf Eddie Friend of Leo's

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    I'm thinking, NO.

    You'd need a throw on the four-way that routed the neck pup's hot to the 500k pot. That two-pole switch doesn't have that capability since we use one pole to rout (select) the bridge pup's hot and the other pole to route the neck's negative to the various places it goes to get the parallel and series combo.

    HOWEVER, if you went back to a three-way and a p/p (or toggle) to get the series, it could be done.
     
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  3. The Ballzz

    The Ballzz Tele-Afflicted

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    How about a 3-way, sacrificing the parallel position? ALA:
    1) Bridge only
    2) Neck only
    3) Bridge & Neck in series​
    I'm guessing that it would be a fairly simple matter to swap position #2 & #3 if desired?

    Just Spitballin' Here,
    Gene
     
  4. jdiego

    jdiego TDPRI Member

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    Very cool idea... I like my strat neck+bridge pups in series tone, but it sounds muffled, not good for rhythm guitar... I didn't realized about the 250K/500K tone pot factor
     
  5. Deaf Eddie

    Deaf Eddie Friend of Leo's

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    Q: How about a 3-way, sacrificing the parallel position?

    Same problem: you need one pole to select the pickups, one pole to switch the neck's negative from ground to the bridge's hot (for series), and one pole to switch the neck's hot from the 250k to the 500k pot...

    You could try a four-pole SUPERSWITCH (24-lug model). Then you just have to decide what to do with the fifth throw...

    I have seen three and four pole 3-ways, I think Ibanez uses (or used) them in one or two of their models. They're not common, but they do exist. BUT... all the ones I've seen are "Gibson" style toggles, not Fender-style levers.

    *******
    Here's another thought:
    I've just been considering changing the output of the pickup selector, running it to one or the other volumes - and leaving the output of both volumes in the circuit all the time. I wonder what - if any - effect that will have on your tone? Would you need to switch the outputs, as well as the inputs, of the two volume pots? That question is outside of my realm of experience.
     
  6. The Ballzz

    The Ballzz Tele-Afflicted

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    @Deaf Eddie

    I'll have to setup a test mule to see if having both pots always connected to the jack (but simply switching the inputs to the two different pots) has any effect! If no difference, that might make the whole scenario a bit easier/simpler?
    Thanx 4 That Thought!

    And @jdiego

    Yes I've done this to my one of my Strats, with a 4-pole 5-way super switch and it wakes up that series position on the 500K, although I do it as the bridge/middle instead of bridge/neck!

    Just Sayin'
    Gene
     
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  7. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I believe you will need to switch both input and output of the volume pots. Here's a circuit I did for someone a while back. Same concept, different layout. I haven't analyzed yours in detail, but like this one, it should be doable with a superswitch.


    Screen Shot 2019-09-06 at 07.54.48 PM.png
     
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  8. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I wish I could find the link to the original thread I created that circuit for. The guy took a photo of the wiring after all done, and man, super neat job, but very, very crowded in the cavity.
     
  9. jimilee

    jimilee Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Somebody chime in on this, could you use a 500k resistor in parallel on a push pull 500k vol pot? In theory, two of the same resistor in parallel will cut the resistance in half, so two 500k resistors would equal approximately 250k.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Yeah, usually a 470k works, and is readily available. It messes with the taper, though.

    Better than a push-pull, decide which switch positions get the 500, and which get the 250, and conditionally put the resistor in the circuit.

    I have a Tele build that because of the rosewood neck, is insanely (natively) bright. It's a SH pickup configuration, and to darken the whole guitar, I used 250k pots. The guitar still sounded too shrill, so I added the 180k in parallel, to bring the volume pot equivalent to 105k. You can do those calculations here. At that point, the neck humbucker sounded great. But the bridge pickup was still too bright, so... I put a 1M resistor in parallel with the whole 105k equivalent mess, only in bridge and middle positions, bringing it down to 95k. Just right. I didn't get to those values immediately - it took some trial and error to see what sounded best.

    I'm not much affected by the taper, because I don't actively use my pots much while playing. I just play at home, and set the guitar volume where I want it, and play. I was surprised how well this worked, and how sweet I was able to dial in the tone. It sounds like a different guitar.



    Screen Shot 2019-09-07 at 10.49.49 AM.png
     
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