4 Way Switch w/Blend & HOOP

[Canyon Creek]

Very long time lurker, first time poster so apologies about my etiquette in advance.

I'm trying to build my ultimate Tele (at least for a week until I think of another mod).

Basically, I want to have a 4 way rotary switch on the upper bout for pickup selection (Bridge, Bridge & Neck Parallel, Neck, Bridge & Neck Series) a la Telecaster Custom but still have a traditional Tele switch plate consisting of 1 x mini-toggle and 3 x pots (blend/tone/volume). Mini-toggle (or a 4 way rotary switch) for position 1. off (ie signal passing through without any of these options affecting the output), position 2. HOOP, position 3. straight to jack/bypass tone & volume and position 4. HOOP & straight to jack (if I can't have position 4 it's not a deal breaker - just thought it would be good to have the option).

Then I'd like a blend pot like the one found below but not concentric - just a pot for the blend. Next is the tone wired like the one in the link below and last pot is for volume.

Essentially I want this wiring with the HOOP added on the mini-toggle (https://www.premierguitar.com/mod-garage-the-super-flexible-super-simple-telecaster-wiring) combined with this way of blending (https://www.radioshoppickups.com/product/telecaster-prewired-harness/). Is it possible?

I'm still deciding on the neck pickup but am probably going for a Gemini Suprocaster in the bridge. I'm leaning toward a Ricky High Gain in the neck (wanted a CC but may be too dark in series. Also wanted a Dynasonic but they are a bit too deep for my Tele body). I play rhythm in a alt-country band and mainly use the middle position into a Fender Deluxe Reverb and use flat wound 12's if that helps.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I have no idea re restrictions when it comes to wiring. Also any recommendations of who could wire up a harness for me too would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Canyon Creek]

Anyone?

 

[wabashslim]

Atsa lotta tings you got dere. Serious overkill IMO. I'd start off printing up some diagrams of how you want all this to work, a wordy description is too much to juggle. If this is all clear in your own mind, fine, then start studying some switch & pot schematics & see if you can't figure it out on your own. My first advice would be to break this down into sections and add one at a time...I assume you have internal access to the upper bout for a rotary switch? Then start with just that. Then work out the other gizmos as you go.
What kind of guitar is this anyway?

You can probably tell by the rush of enthusiastic responses there are some ideas that you may have to execute on your own. That will involve learning how things work.

And...welcome to the forum!

 

[frisco slim]

I also stayed away from this one because some of the things you are asking for really don't make sense.

For example, any HOOP (half out of phase) option is only effective when two out of phase pickups in parallel are selected and one of them is wired in series with a small capacitor. This cuts the bass on ONE pickup, allowing the bass on the second pickup to come through, thus achieving a fuller sound than the usual thin, tinny out of phase relationship.

The HOOP option on the single pickup with the series cap will just act as a bass cut. The HOOP option on the other single pickup with no series cap will have no effect at all.

The HOOP option applied to two pickups in phase and in series likewise gives an overall bass cut, not an out-of-phase sound.

It just seemed like you had really not thoroughly thought through what you are trying to achieve.

 

[wabashslim]

Beginners often go nuts wanting every possible mod they've ever read about without knowing how they work or which ones are even worthwhile, and without even the slightest knowledge of simple electronics they want to commission others to do their designing for them...then they'll often object to any suggestion that their ideas aren't workable or practical. The lowly Fender blade switch cannot be made to fly a 747 no matter how much you want it to. You can't get 7 functions out of a 5-pos. switch alone.

I'm not saying all this pertains to the OP here. And we know there are probably guys reading this who will take his ideas as a challenge and are working with sketch pads or design programs right now as we speak(?) and just might come up with something usable. Bless those clever guys. But guitar switching electronics is so simple almost anyone can and should learn it if they want to execute their...ahem...unique ideas. IMO!

 

[wabashslim]

I just re-read the first post. A 4-position mini-toggle? Does that exist, because if it does I'd really like to have a few. I have 4-pole minis with 2 or 3 positions but 4 throws sounds like a tight squeeze.

I don't understand most of the rest of what he's wanting. Looks like mini pos.1 and 3 are the same thing, bypassed straight to jack. And working in a blend pot along with 4-way selector and HOOP would be quite the little snake fest, seems to me. Skipping the blender and using a push-pull pot for HOOP would be my first suggestion.

 

[Hodgo88]

Hmmm… this is doable, but OP hasn’t logged in since Jan 30.

The way I’d approach this is to have a push pull that adds HOOP and series options to pos 2/3 of a standard 3-way switch, another push pull for a blower switch, and add a M/N taper blend knob. Could (barely) fit under a single control plate. Not the same control scheme OP was asking for, but it would provide all of the options.

 

[wabashslim]

Hmmm… this is doable, but OP hasn’t logged in since Jan 30.

The way I’d approach this is to have a push pull that adds HOOP and series options to pos 2/3 of a standard 3-way switch, another push pull for a blower switch, and add a M/N taper blend knob. Could (barely) fit under a single control plate. Not the same control scheme OP was asking for, but it would provide all of the options.

P-P for HOOP, check. Mini tog w/momentary off for fast blower action, check. The blender like the one he suggests above might be doable electrically (never cared for the blender thing myself - too many treble-killing pots & inductors) but that control plate is way expensive. Keeping in mind he wants a rotary 4-way pickup selector (cumbersome!) way up high that would leave space on the normal (down low) control plate for 3 pots & 2 mini toggles. I think Guitar Fetish used to sell blank control plates.

FWIW my #1 has a 4-way, 2 p-p pots, a 3-pos. mini toggle and last time I looked about 6 capacitors under there. So I understand the heartbreak of overkill.

 

[Hodgo88]

P-P for HOOP, check. Mini tog w/momentary off for fast blower action, check. The blender like the one he suggests above might be doable electrically (never cared for the blender thing myself - too many treble-killing pots & inductors) but that control plate is way expensive. Keeping in mind he wants a rotary 4-way pickup selector (cumbersome!) way up high that would leave space on the normal (down low) control plate for 3 pots & 2 mini toggles. I think Guitar Fetish used to sell blank control plates.

FWIW my #1 has a 4-way, 2 p-p pots, a 3-pos. mini toggle and last time I looked about 6 capacitors under there. So I understand the heartbreak of overkill.

lol, yeah. I do not like the idea of a rotary to try and accomplish what he is talking about because of how many positions it would effectively make useless on the pickup selector like @frisco slim pointed out. I usually abhor series wiring because it forces a neck lead to a selector switch common, but in this case it actually simplifies the problem… we can use that to accomplish more on one push pull.

Blend pots, yeah, yuck. 1 meg pots maybe? But still one of my least favorite controls, unless it’s the old Esquire blend knob.

 

[Hodgo88]

Actually I just realized my “Tele Paul” wiring is actually very close, it has series/HOOP/parallel wiring on the the blade switch and pickup selection on the toggle. Requires a 4P3T super switch though.

 

[wabashslim]

I have 4p5t superswitches on 4 Strat pickguards (3 in actual use) for the Tele-Strat combo, where putting the blade in the middle gives the middle pickup or pulling the volume pot gives the B-N combo without affecting any other switch positions. More complicated than just having a simple on-off for one pickup but I (1) wanted a simpler, more logical operation and (2) the all-3-pickups-on combo is just muddy & indistinct IMO so that isn't available. I wired all these up years ago when I was lots more enthusiastic about getting everything just so; since I never drew these out I probably couldn't even build one today from memory!
Plus I have all kinds of pull-pot capacitor options on the tone knobs. But you'd never know from looking.

 

[GuitarsBuicks]

You can't get 7 functions out of a 5-pos. switch alone.

I agree with everything but this one statement. You can effectively double your sonic options with a 5-way and judicious management of the tone control. You still only have 5-switching options, don’t get me wrong, but you can do A LOT with just a tone control.

For example, if you have a 3-way telecaster/Les Paul style switching arrangement, you have essentially 6-9 options using just the tone control. More if you have independent tone and volume controls for each pickup Unless you play like me and run everything wide open all the time, you now have wide open, all the way closed, and half way on all three positions giving you effectively 9 options. This goes up to at least 4-5 more with the independent 4-knob set in the middle position because in theory you could use the volume to blend in either pickup to the desired amount with the addition of various amounts from the tone control.

As for the rotary switch, personally I’d prefer a blade or toggle because I don’t have to think in the heat of battle which position I want. I can literally just slap the switch to the position I want. Same with coil-tap/coil-split switches. I want to be able to just slap them to the position I want. It’s either up or down, split/tapped or whole pickup. Don’t make me think about it with a push-pull and a rotary. Simple is key to making things work.

 

[wabashslim]

"You can't get 7 functions out of a 5-pos. switch alone."

Reading is fundamental.