28 watt 5E3 with 4 6v6 build

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Intubator, Jul 23, 2019.

  1. Intubator

    Intubator Tele-Meister

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    Hey folks, last Fall I repaired my 96' Hot Rod Deluxe and then over the Winter having been bit by the bug, I built a Champ in a Princeton cab with a 12" speaker.
    Anyway, thinking ahead to this winters' projects I'm planning on doing a 28watt 5e3 chassis powered by four 6v6's in a tweed twin cab with 2-10" or 12" speakers. I was wondering if anyone here has done this and if anyone has a schematic or thoughts about it. Thanks for any advice or tips, appreciate it!

    Chris
     
  2. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    FWIW, incubator, the 5E5....not the 5E5A but the rare 5E5....uses in essence the 5E3 circuit....same preamp, same phase inverter, same biasing....to get to what is a big 5E3 amp. Some modern takes call this a ProLuxe. I call it what Leo called it...a 5E5 Pro. Unless you have already bought the transformers, you might consider this amp since there...or was...at least one kit and many builds of this circuit.
    Or...build that 4x6V6 approach.
     
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  3. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

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  4. Intubator

    Intubator Tele-Meister

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    Thanks for the suggestions guys. I may very well go the route of the Proluxe 5E5 with the 6l6s. One of my goals was to keep the output to around 25-30 watts vs 40, which I understand is close to the 5E5 output. I also prefer the overdrive tones of 6v6's over the 6l6s. Any thoughts on speakers? I'm probably going to go with Weber Alnicos, 2-10" or 2-12" in the cab.
     
  5. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    If I read this post as you intend, you are thinking the 5E5 is a 40 watt amp. This is not so. The 5E5A/5E7/5F4 amp’s are 26 watts, iirc; and hey are fixed biased which will yield a little more power than does the cathode biased circuit of the 5E5 Pro.
    I also understand some perception of the differences between the smaller tube and the 6L6. I believe in circuits. Ommv...
     
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  6. RottenTheCat

    RottenTheCat Tele-Meister

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    I think you'll find that many of the modern kits and replicas will actually do at least 40 watts. Those amps are using transformers which can deliver the voltage and current to produce that many watts. The originals did not.... And were much closer to somewhat less than 30 watts.

    My 5F4 does just under 13vAC at the speakers, at 1kHz. That's a 4 ohm load. Quick math, just shy of 45 watts.

    At times, I wish it was far less power.
     
  7. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Then, imho, those kits are not building that vintage amp. For my money, if I want to build a vintage amp, it will have vintage voltage and it will have a vintage OT. This would assure that it would yield the same type of output and Sonics as the originals.

    FWIW, I have a 1965 Bandmaster chassis that was much hacked before I got it....someone actually built a solid state amp in it!! I acquired a head cab for it from someone who was doing a combo Bandmaster. I have toyed with the idea of building a 4x6V6 circuit in it....maybe a Trainwreck Express with the provision to drop two of the 6V6’s out of operation so as to have an output power option.

    At any rate, good luck with the build, incubator, whatever you decide to build.
     
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  8. bftfender

    bftfender Friend of Leo's

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    here was Valvetrain 427..5881 28 watter 427gut (2).jpg
     
  9. RottenTheCat

    RottenTheCat Tele-Meister

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    Oh, totally agreed on vitage amp, yet.... The "modern" ones do a pretty good job on their own merit.
     
  10. Intubator

    Intubator Tele-Meister

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    Thanks Walleye! I appreciate the input. If the 5E5 Pro is indeed is about 26W that is what I'm shooting for. Also, thinking about driving two Weber 10" alnicos in a narrow panel "Super" cab for this project. Open to any advice or suggestions regarding that.
     
  11. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Use some good speakers! Lol. the Emi ALK is the best bang for the buck, imho. I happen to be a fan of 15” speakers...and 10’s and 12’s.....any good speaker. There is even one vintage 8” I like...the Jensen P8RS...not to be found in any Fender. It makes a ?Champ be a big amp.
    FWIW, IF you did not want the 5E3 approach...simple tone stack, cathodyne phase inverter and cathode biasing... the 5E7 Bandmaster is perhaps my favorite out of the tweeds I have owned and worked on. That amp and it’s stablemates I listed above make 26 watts. The 5E5 Pro will make that max...and it might be a bit under that output. One could make the 5E7’s bias switchable to cathode. I had two ‘59 Bandmasters and a ‘56 5E8A Twin at the same time...all non-original to such an an extent that I did not mind having my tech at the time make them bulletproof for long term viability..if you will. They were all magnificent amps. The Supers had the smoothest verdict of any .fender amp I have ever plugged into. If one pulled one of the rectifiers from the 5E8A, it became much the same amp...but not quite there. Even the 5E5A Pro I had was not the same...slightly different response despite being ALMOST an identical circuit. There is something in the 5E7 that is special, Ime. All of these amps break up sooner and more smoothly than do the two BIG tweeds...the 5F6A Bassman and the 5F8A high power tweed Twin. The Lo-po 5E8A Twin with both of its 5U4 rectifiers leans to the stiffer side of the equation in comparison to all of the other 2X6L6 tweeds except the 5F6A which is a different animal.
    So many amps...so many choices...I wish I still had them all. But....I have a couple of amps that can be set up to mimic almost any tweed I have had.....so as an old man, I am content in not having to continue the search. I have had the pleasure of being exposed to a large number of the tweed variations, and I tried to develop some sort of tonal memory.
     
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  12. Intubator

    Intubator Tele-Meister

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    I just reviewed the schematics for the 5E5 pro. Looks very similar to the 5E3 except for the 6L6's and notably a second 12AY7 preamp tube. Also, there are no grid stopper resistors, input signal goes directly to the preamp tube... Could the preamp side of the 5E5 be built the same as the 5e3?
     
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  13. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    That was the point of my first post in this thread.....post #2.
     
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  14. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    And..yes, you could build with the input grid resistors as in the 5E3...or with different values...or as with the 5E5’s hot input there. You could even put the input resistance on a switch for a switchable input signal going to that first stage.
     
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  15. Intubator

    Intubator Tele-Meister

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    So, its going to be two 6l6's for this project. Any recommendations for transformers? I assume, whatever the original 5e5 specs are is what I should stick to using, vs 5e3 specs. Also, original spec rectifier is a 5u4ga.
     
  16. strat56

    strat56 Tele-Holic

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  17. Intubator

    Intubator Tele-Meister

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    yeah, I've been studying the schematic of the Weber kit. Gonna try it with 2 6L6s like the original 5E5 per Wallys' recommendation, vs 4 6V6s, which is the Weber kit. Looking at the original 5E5 (1954?)layout and schematic does anyone know the PT and OT specs? Are they the same as found on the 5E3? I'm wanting to get about 25Watts max out of this amp... Any Classic Tone or Mercury part#s known by anyone for cross-reference for this?
     
  18. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Reasonably priced...

    http://www.classictone.net/40-18029.html

    Higher priced??? I might think about the BF Vibrolux PT from Mercury Magnetics due to it being a clone of a transformer that I know yields the right voltage. The Classictone will be very close with the 610VAC winding.

    OT...I would spring for the closest clone I could find to the real thing...and that would probably be a MM clone of either a tweed Pro or Super OT. They offer blueprinted clones. OMMV......
    If going for a more reasonable price one might go for the Classictone 40 watt OT??? However, that is not what the vintage amp would have had.
    With proper voltage and a pin accurate OT, a vintage circuit should give you a vintage type of Sonic. Any change is just that...a change.
     
  19. Intubator

    Intubator Tele-Meister

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    Hey Wally, do you think this one would work for a PT?

    http://www.classictone.net/40-18073.html

    It's looks the same to me as the 40-18029 but I won't have to deal with the 220 & 240v primaries.. Also, the B1+ voltage is rated exactly the same as the original 5E5 schematic at 396V @ 100ma with the GU4GA rectifier.
     
  20. Intubator

    Intubator Tele-Meister

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    Same mounting dimensions too.
     
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