2017 Houston Astros Using Cameras to Cheat Video... Naughty,Naughty

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by stealyerface, Nov 13, 2019.

  1. stealyerface

    stealyerface Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    50
    Posts:
    1,487
    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Location:
    Upstate NY


    Well, I will label this as NSFW due to some pottymouth, but here is a video breakdown of the Astros sending signs to the plate, obviously using the cameras withing the dugout (Yes, most have a delay, but live streaming within the stadium is certainly possible on non-sanctioned video equipment).

    Evan Gattis is at the plate, and is most certainly well aware of the next pitch, as evident by him sitting on some pretty gnarly off speed stuff, and being right on the fastballs.

    Only after Farquhar realizes Gattis is spitting on his off-speed stuff, and hears the banging, does he step off the mound and talk with the catcher.

    He then makes Gattis look bad on a dirty changeup, who flails miserably at the pitch, as he had no idea it was coming.

    Here's the deal: You want to steal signs from second base, peek in at the catcher who isn't covering up the signals, or watch a pitcher tip his pitches, and steal them legally, that's one thing. We teach it early, and THAT is part of the game.

    Using the hi-def camera feed from centerfield to look at the catcher's fingers, and relay that to a batter in real-time?!?! Nope to the nope.

    As more videos surface, there will be some answering to do.

    Watch the video, and let me know what you think...
    ~syf
     
    Blue333, brbadg, Tommy Biggs and 2 others like this.
  2. Deeve

    Deeve Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,855
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Location:
    Ballard
    My question: were those balls fully inflated?
     
    Clifton C, Shuster, MickM and 4 others like this.
  3. bender66

    bender66 Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    6,700
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Location:
    on my bike
    Love the in depth stuff like this. It's great to watch in cycling too (my preferred sport). Thanks for sharing that.

    I couldn't hear any banging though. I'm gonna need to put some headphones on.
     
  4. Texicaster

    Texicaster Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    820
    Joined:
    May 9, 2018
    Location:
    Arizona
    While certainly possible last time I was at a game it was pretty loud and lots of banging going on. Once the visiting team thinks somethings up they would bang away too! Teams are ALWAYS looking for cheats and this such a blatant one it would have and actually WAS picked up by the pitcher...

    Ya know it coulda just been a couple fans.... not an organized thing and the team caught on. I don't know....

    I think it would be more in the way of a visual clue.

    IF it's true... they should have used it during this years WS! Just kidding but 0-4 at home in WS?! I think they would have pulled it out in game 7 when on the ropes....IF true...
     
    Straydogger likes this.
  5. stealyerface

    stealyerface Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    50
    Posts:
    1,487
    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    If I recall, the Astros went 3-6 in the 17playoffs away from their home field... that’s kind of telling (to me)

    Fans “could” do it, but how would the fans let the players know they were going to signal them? Not enough access, and who was to say they wouldn’t be double crossing, and calling them incorrectly. This info has to come from the dugout.

    Too evident to me, and I totally hear the banging, and so did Gattis. He knew those off speed pitches were coming and laid off accordingly.

    This will be interesting to see how it pans out.
    ~syf
     
  6. GGardner

    GGardner Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,413
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2017
    Location:
    NJ
    this is an entertaining take on the subject.

     
  7. Torren61

    Torren61 Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    2,274
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2013
    Location:
    Humboldt County, CA
    They wanted to deflate the balls but figured they'd get caught...
     
  8. VWAmTele

    VWAmTele Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,196
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Location:
    FL
    Lose first and second round draft choices for the next two years and suspend Hinch for the full year. Too severe? I think Pete Rose would've been happy with that sentence. Think about a young pitcher who may have been shelled unfairly and then found themselves out of the show soon after. This has a thousand different tentacles.
     
    Jerry J and Nightclub Dwight like this.
  9. fendertx

    fendertx Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free + Supporter

    Posts:
    6,974
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Location:
    Houston
    These allegations have been floating around baseball for a few years now. Many teams have been mentioned, but the Astros are the most high profile due to the circumstances. It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out to be true, people have been cheating in baseball since day one. I'm sure they will find evidence that many teams are electronically stealing signs when the finish the investigation.

    I can live with it if the team I follow is found to have stolen signs electronically. It will suck, but the Astros have brought me a lot of joy regardless.

    However, I am petty and I don't get why Mike Fiers waits two years to need to clear his conscience.

    Here is Mike Fiers (between Hinch and Correa) all torn up after they cheated their way to a Championship. Look how ashamed he is.
    IMG_1001.JPG
    Mike Fiers still distraught his team cheated, accepting his World Series ring.
    IMG_1002.JPG
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  10. Texicaster

    Texicaster Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    820
    Joined:
    May 9, 2018
    Location:
    Arizona
    According to Fiers,:'... used a camera in center field to capture signs from opposing catchers to the pitchers at Minute Maid Park in Houston, transmitted images to a monitor near the dugout and then relayed information to the batter by banging on a trash can."

    A video camera to a monitor... in 2017? Banging a trash can? C'mon! The video seems to indicate true but what 12 year old came up with this scheme?! Red Sox at least used iWatches!

    I was pondering how and came up with a dozen better ideas before I saw the video!

    Stealing signs is part of the game. Technology seems to be too clunky for the task if involving more than one guy and banging trash cans! It's gotta be a guy with binos and a cell phone calling another guy with the trash can. Not enough time to do it the way Fiers says IMO...

    Plus you just start banging trash cans in the visitor dug out..... The entire story presupposes no other teams is aware of the clandestine war to steal signs. An Astro employee was busted monitoring the Red Sox dug out. I'm sure its rampant and much more sophisticated than Eddie Haskell banging trash can lids....

    It's 2019.....there's inductive earpieces that are size of a grain of rice.....THAT'S what being used!
     
  11. scrapyardblue

    scrapyardblue Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,526
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Location:
    central illinois
    This wouldn't be the Astros first rodeo. While Cardinals player development manager Chris Correa pleaded guilty to hacking into the Astros database a few years back, he provided some interesting evidence that he was responding to the Astros who were stealing Cardinal proprietary information.

    The Cardinals had developed an anaylitical database and system for evaluating talent. When Jeff Luhnow moved to Houston along about 2011-12, he purportedly took the algorithms and other proprietary methodology with him. Suspicious of Luhnow and another tech guy he took with him, Correa initially figured out the password to verify that the Astros new employees had in fact stolen the Cardinals program.

    When presented to MLB, the commissioner's office refused to properly investigate. Little was reported about the allegations at the time and the Cardinal organization decided to accept their punishment and move on.
     
  12. getbent

    getbent Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    37,077
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Location:
    San Benito County, California
    so will Fiers give back his ring? thought so.
     
    fendertx and MilwMark like this.
  13. Nightclub Dwight

    Nightclub Dwight Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,111
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Baseball is sort of unique in that there is the official rule book that is policed by MLB and the unofficial rule book that is policed on field.

    I'm pretty confident that ever since the first caveman challenged his neighbor to a running race, people have been trying to bend the rules of competition to their advantage. Some of the greatest athletes in history are famous for the creative ways they have managed to bend/break the rules. Gaylord Perry rode the success of his spitball all the way to Cooperstown.

    But like @stealyerface mentioned, there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it. If these allegations hold up, I imagine there will be repercussions through both the official and unofficial channels.

    All I can say is that I'm thankful that we have the good ol' 27 time world champion New York Yankees to hold up as a paragon of excellence for the rest of the world to admire! Sorry, I just had to sneak that one in.
     
    Jerry J likes this.
  14. -Hawk-

    -Hawk- Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,131
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Location:
    IL, USA
    Shameful. Made worse by the pompous responses when Hinch and the players were questioned about it. Notice the GM had a much different tone to his response when questioned this week. Instead of laughing it off, he gave a very corporate answer of “we take this seriously and are going to look into it”. That’s pretty telling.

    It seems a common answer from Astros fans on social media is that people are just “haters” if they find this troublesome. The team I root for hasn’t been impacted by the Astros in a long time and I actually rooted for them in the 2017 WS. It was a great story at the time, but it’s tarnished. They’ve really managed to sour what was a great image between this and the Ozuna mess. Even Hinch, who’d hung on to his reputation very well through everything, is tainted now imo.
     
    Telecaster88 and fendertx like this.
  15. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    10,332
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2013
    Location:
    near Arnold's
    I'm not that into baseball.

    It sounds like some stealing of signs is "ok" and other stealing of signs is not?

    How does that make any sense?
     
    scrapyardblue and fendertx like this.
  16. bigbean

    bigbean Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    1,355
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Location:
    Hartville OH
    I love baseball. These controversies are part of it. We are aware of issues like this going back to the early 1900s but they probably extend back to the beginnings of the game prior to the civil war. No other sport has anything like baseball.

    Tyler Naquin 2016 connected to Brago Roth 1919.

     
  17. -Hawk-

    -Hawk- Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,131
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Location:
    IL, USA
    The ability to steal signs in person is spotty at best. In reality, it’s not very practical at all. Teams fo safeguard though, by doing much more complex signaling if a base runner is on 2nd base. That negates the issue.

    In this case, they used zoomed in cameras positioned in the outfield and then fed to a monitor real time to the ramp up to their dugout. There’s no way for another team to defend against that. It also indicates their baseball operations staff was involved.
     
    Telecaster88 likes this.
  18. rolandson

    rolandson Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    437
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2017
    Location:
    Cascadia
    Personally I find the thought of baseball cheating terribly sad.

    I don't know why.

    (Full disclosure, I don't pay much attention to baseball...except that I do think falling asleep in front of a televised baseball game a perfect way to spend an afternoon)

    Perhaps I perceive baseball as something sacrosanct, due to the indoctrination that nearly every little male child experienced in the 50's and 60's.

    Spouse and I argue about this sort of thing. I think if "one" is found to be cheating, "one" ought to be banned from the endeavor...

    Forever.

    "One" can be an individual, a team, or, as in the case of uncle Vlad and his chemistry set used in 2014, during the winter Olympics in Sochi, a country.

    And this opinion isn't limited to sport.

    Spouse thinks I'm unrealistic. She's probably right.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  19. fendertx

    fendertx Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free + Supporter

    Posts:
    6,974
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Location:
    Houston
    Couple of thoughts on your post:

    1. What do you expect Hinch and the players to say "hell yeah, we cheated"? In hindsight, sure it seems like an arrogant response, but if you are stealing signs your not going to readily admit to it. So I don't put much stock in his response.
    2. The Astros fans that are either denying or crying "hater" are just homers that will not allow for their team to be viewed poorly. I am an Astros fan and I willing to accept that the Astros probably did steal signs in some fashion beyond the norm. Usually the most vocal fans are not the most objective, so please don't assume all of us are in denial about what is going on.
     
    -Hawk- and scrapyardblue like this.
  20. stealyerface

    stealyerface Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    50
    Posts:
    1,487
    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    After college, I was playing baseball in Rochester NY, and we had a game one evening that I was pitching in, and as I was sitting on the bench for our home half of the first inning, I could see that the opposing catcher had a lazy right leg. This means that he would drop his right knee before he signaled the pitch he wanted to the pitcher. This resulted in me getting a perfect view of the catcher's fingers, and ultimately knowing what pitch was on the way.

    After the inning was over, I called the guys in, and said that I was watching the pitch calls, and would let them know what was coming (if they wanted it- as some guys do not want to know) by yelling their first name for a fastball. "C'mon Randy, let's go Mark" etc... If I saw anything offspeed, I would yell a nickname or a last name- "Let's go Bones.. C'mon Fox, Hang in there O'Brien"...

    We were sitting on pitches, laying off curveballs and sliders, and just waiting for a hitter's count, swinging out our arses, and exploded for five runs in the second inning.

    In the third inning, I saw a curveball sign, and yelled out, "Let's go Masher", and Scotty launched a homerun to left field.

    The next batter, I made it way too obvious, and with a fastball sign on the first pitch, I yelled out, "Go get it, Harold". The trouble was, "Harold" was well known in the league, and his nickname was Rocky. No one, and I mean no one called him Harold. Even as he graduated from high school, he was known as Rocky. (He hated the name Harold).

    Rock stepped out and shook his head at me, and the catcher immediately stood up, pulled up his mask and walked towards our bench, he got about three feet from in front of the fence, and flipped me a rather aggressive bird. Arm extended towards my face, a perfectly crafted middle finger salute, with excellent hold and duration.

    I smiled at him, looked around the bird, and yelled out towards Rocky who was at the plate.

    "Fastball".

    Fast forward 20 years, and now coaching, I still peek in from the third base coaches box, and if I can see it, I'll let the fellas know. There's cheating, and there's cheating.

    Using cameras and watches and earpieces and technology, kind of steals the art of stealing signs (in my opinion).

    Runners peeking in, pitchers tipping pitches, lazy signs, etc.. are all fair game to me.

    ~syf
     
    joealso, bender66, VWAmTele and 3 others like this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.