2 SCs, Gibson-style toggle pup selector, series?

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by Peter Rabbit, Nov 22, 2016.

  1. Peter Rabbit

    Peter Rabbit Tele-Holic

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    Is it possible, with two Tele single-coils and a Gibson-style toggle pickup selector,
    [​IMG]
    to have the middle position be series, rather than parallel? I have searched prodigiously, but to no avail, to find an answer to this perplexing question.

    Thanks for your help.
     
  2. Formerblonde

    Formerblonde Tele-Meister

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    Nope. That switch can only give you parallel.
     
  3. Peter Rabbit

    Peter Rabbit Tele-Holic

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    O.K., thanks. I'll use a push-push tone pot instead.
     
  4. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    If you want series without the option to run in parallel, that toggle switch will work. As with the 4-way switch wiring, the pickup windings need to be free of grounding....that is, as with a Tele the grounds made from the base of the bridge or the cover at the neck need to be seprated from the windings. Then, the contacts made to the toggle need to be 'reversed' from normal....the ending that was going to ground is taken to the lead and the lead is taken to ground.

    Here is an article that talks about series wiring. It shows series diagrams. It shows the dpdt switching for two single coil pickups for option selections. Parallel connects the beginning of the winds together and the ends of the windings are tied together. In series, one ties the end of one winding to the beginning of the other winding. The two loose ends are the lead and ground for the total series arrangement. The 3-way toggle will get it done.....but you will only have series....no option for parallel.

    Here is an interesting article...

    http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/3_mods_for_3_guitars?page=3
     
  5. Peter Rabbit

    Peter Rabbit Tele-Holic

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    Thanks Wally. Yes, I am looking to replace the parallel connection with series, these particular pups sound much better in series.

    I do know about the cover-ground separation, and I'm familiar with series/parallel wiring, I'm just not seeing how to achieve series with this type of switch.

    Any ideas where to find a diagram? 'Cos I'm still learning.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2016
  6. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    PeterRabbit, I am going to have to retract my first post....I don't think this can be done. And....I am not sure that it can be done in any manner with that toggle switch. I will think about it.....but IF you use a DPDT as suggested and as shown in that link I gave, then you cannot use the toggle switch....and you cannot achieve single pickup operations. Teh 3-way toggle ties two end of the two pickups together, but to achieve series the other end of one of those widnigns has to be the lead to the output circuit...with the other free end at ground.
    this is the beauty of that 4-way tele switch. The "-" of one pickup can be at ground while the two ends of the other pickup can be assigned in parallel or in series with the first pickup, whose "+" end is the lead to the output when the two pickups are joined together in the switch.
    There is a 6 position toggle switch...'The Freeway"....but the diagrams I found do not create a series arrangement like you want. IT will create a series/out of phase....but that is not what you are wanting, is it?
     
  7. Peter Rabbit

    Peter Rabbit Tele-Holic

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    This looks like a simple solution, I'll just leave it in series mode.

    [​IMG]

    Question: if this can be done with a DPDT switch, why can't it be done without the switch, for series only? I'm missing the logic. What a surprise.
    Thanks again for your interest and help, Wally.
    Peter
     
  8. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    ....
     
  9. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Give that a shot and let us know how it works. I see how the parallel/series DPDT works with the toggle switch in the middle position. I see how the bridge pickup works alone when selected by the toggle no matter where the DPDT is. I can see how the neck pickup works alone, but the DPDT has to be in one position only.....making contact for the negative of the neck with the negative of the bridge. IF I am correct, then the series/parallel switch has to be in the parallel mode in order to access the neck pickup alone with the toggle switch. That would complicate your leaving that switch in series full time, wouldn't it? Let us know....I may be missing something.
     
  10. Peter Rabbit

    Peter Rabbit Tele-Holic

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    O.k. Wally, I'll give it a shot, prolly tomorrow. Got another couple coming over for drinks & stuff tonight.
    BTW, nice bike.
    Peter

    edit: Wait a tick. Does that mean that, if the ser/par switch is in the series position and the pup selector is in the neck position, there will be no signal, or will it still be both pups in series?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2016
  11. jvin248

    jvin248 Poster Extraordinaire

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    .

    The 'Gibson' toggle switch is really two 'normally closed' switches mounted together and usually connected in parallel. You can break the commonly soldered center tabs and get two switches again, but both of them can only open a circuit they can't add in something.

    Best option I could do is modify the switch to give you
    1-Humbucker (both coils in series),
    2-Single Coil (say the neck for cleans),
    3-Kill Switch
    Which gives up the option of one of the single coils alone so you have to decide if the humbucker can cover what you did on the single coil.

    The basic operation here is how a humbucker is 'coil split' by grounding out the center connection between the two coils. You could not do the right side of the switch in the sketch and just have the pickup go to the jack and then you'd have humbucker, single coil, humbucker.
    Or use that side of the switch to disengage a tone capacitor or the whole tone pot and cap for a humbucker tone with volume only.


    upload_2016-11-30_15-20-59.png
     
  12. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Thanks on the bike....she is a sweet old gal...1998...she isn't stock. That Thunderheader pipe is big, deep and smooth....partially gutted, I think. She has a nice, strong engine and runs more smoothly than any Harley I have been on.

    AS I see the switching there, when the DPDT is in series and one goes to the neck pickup selection on the 3-way, there is no ground for the neck pickup. IF you switch the DPDT to parallel, then ground is made for the neck and all is good. I have looked at if every which way I can, and that is what I see.
    check it out....when the DPDT is in series, the neck 'negative' is tied to the bridge positive. When the selector is good for the bridge, the bridge negative is at ground and the positive goes to the toggle switch and out. IF you go to the neck selection on the 3-way with the series made in the DPDT, the neck negative is still tied to the bridge positive. You have to switch the DPDT to the parallel mode to get the neck negative to tie to ground through that bridge negative contact on the DPDT.
     
  13. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's

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    I'd just get a DPDT box style switch and be done with it,

    Diagram.png
     
  14. Peter Rabbit

    Peter Rabbit Tele-Holic

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    Asmith: are you showing an on/on/on switch?
     
  15. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's

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    Yeah so it operates like this (Type 2)
    [​IMG]

    If you get a switch that operates like type 1 mirror how the terminals connect.
     
  16. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's

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    Here's a mirror of the diagram if you have a type 1 switch.

    Untitled.png
     
  17. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's

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    Sorry for piling on replies but 've just thought of a simpler way to wire this thing. Type 2 is on the left type 1 is on the right.

    Diagram.png
     
  18. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    ASmith, so this is not a DPDT on/on/on. Different from a DPDT on/on...which I mistakenly thought is what was being used. Now, ASmith, can you specify the 'positive' and 'negative' leads on the pickups.
     
  19. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's

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    It is a DPDT and it is an on/on/on switch and the latest drawing works by switching pickups off by putting a jumper over the pickup terminals. The ground leads are the ones on the left side of the pickups and the hot is on the right side.

    Diagram.png
     
  20. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Maybe I am missing something. I don't see how this scheme works. Looking a type 1....In the 'switch up' position, you will have a series arrangement. In the switch down, the scheme does achieve the series arrangement. In the middle position, the two negatives are tied together one side, the positives are tied together on the other side....and the jumper ties everything together??? Without the jumper across the middle, this would be a parallel wiring, correct? If you remove the jumper, you won't have the series in the other positions. With the jumper it is dead??? Or...as I said....am I missing something?
     
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