1st gig with the Katana 50

[T Prior]

While others have been using these for years, I am the last one to the party. I bought one used from GC, its pretty darn flexible. Took it to the small gig yesterday and it performed very well. The only thing I noticed , in a very clean mode, I was getting bottom end distortion. Possibly its due to the previous owner cranking it beyond its limits ( havoc on the speaker ) or maybe its normal for a very inexpensive amp at moderate volume . Maybe its just a cheap speaker ! I mean its a $250 amp new ! This was in the 50 watt mode, clean setting.

I'm not returning it but I am exploring speaker options. Overall the amp performed better than expected.

Any speaker upgrade comments would be appreciated.

 

[Dacious]

I'd just review your treble and bass settings.

My bandmate who plays rhythm uses one and mostly he plays 25 watt mode. Sometimes he flicks to 50 watt. Sometimes on 25 watts he complains it runs out of headroom but doesn't really distort.

His clean tone is pretty clean. I think he uses the Fender clean mode whatever it's called.

A Celestion 7080 is probably a good pick as it's open and transparent and also very efficient. Not sure about it fitting in the cabinet. They're used in a lot of modellers like the Mustang IV

 

[beagle]

It's not normal, I've never had any problem.

His clean tone is pretty clean. I think he uses the Fender clean mode whatever it's called.

There is no "Fender clean mode".

 

[brookdalebill]

I owned the 100W version, and it sounded great!
It did not shake me from using my Cube amps though.
I preferred the closed back, built in tuner and looper of the Cube.
I’d bet the previous owner of your Katana might have damaged your speaker.

 

[Dacious]

It's not normal, I've never had any problem.
There is no "Fender clean mode".

I don't think it's called that - but that's what he calls it. His other amp is a Hotrod Deluxe which has a clean tone he tries to emulate.

 

[rosellem]

That's awesome! I've been using mine for years, usually on the 25 watt setting about noon with a mic in front of it. As stated above I would look at your bass and treble settings before swapping out speakers.

 

[T Prior]

That's awesome! I've been using mine for years, usually on the 25 watt setting about noon with a mic in front of it. As stated above I would look at your bass and treble settings before swapping out speakers.

Yes, I rolled back the Bass and Treble and it helped a bit, but not totally. It was still annoying.

I was not really playing loud, to my ears, but I do think the previous owner perhaps wacked the speaker ! I'm going to call over to GC and discuss it, I don't really want to return it, but if they don't offer a concession of some sort, then I may return it. We'll see.

Maybe I'll bring it in and do a side by side with a new one.

 

[assessor]

The clean setting is very bass heavy indeed. If you play loud it can certainly fart out.

I usually play at the crunch setting which is more mid focused. With gain at zero.

If your playing single coil that is pretty clean. On hum buckers not so much.

If you are using Boss Tone Studio you can dial the input into the crunch channel down with a help of a global eq,

 

[PhredE]

Most modeling amps use speakers with a fairly flat response (no pronounced spikes or sharp peaks/troughs). So.. as Dacious said, one that you'll see used a lot for such amps is the Celestion 70/80: https://celestion.com/product/seventy-80/

I sometimes use a heavy duty 12" PA woofer that is not quite as efficient but handles a ridiculous amount of power (450w). For all practical purposes, it is indestructible. Also has a similar 'flat' response curve. My favorite speaker is one with a totally different character (freq. curve) -- so variety = options, and options are good.

About the 70/80.. It is conventional ceramic magnet, 98db, weighs about 7lbs and is rated for 80w (in theory, it should be handle the full power of the Katana 50, but once a pedal is in front and turned way up...???). So, it's entirely possible the speaker was damaged.

If you open that spec page, scroll down a bit until you see the response graph. You can see it is relatively 'flat' -- especially from about 100hz (about low E open) up to about 1000hz (roughly the highest notes playable on high E string).

My experience is that most amp builders don't go 'all out' to make sure there is a quality speaker in a mass produced combo amp (especially if regular selling price is under about $800-$1000). It's a place they can cut corners and most people don't know the difference. Sometimes, a superior speaker might sound even better. 'They don't know what they don't know'.. sort of thing.

One critical piece of info that would be necessary to know before proceeding is the impedance rating of speaker in there now. Is it 4 ohms or 8 ohms? I can't seem to find it online -- but you might be able to pull the back off and see what is printed / labeled on the speaker. If it's 8 ohms, you in the best shape to replace it with the greatest array of options. If it's only 4 ohms your range of possibilities are fewer.

So, make sure you match impedance rating of amp-speaker of course, and if it were me, I'd go with a speaker that has an even greater power rating, and if possible, a slightly more efficient one too (in the interest of maximum clean headroom should you need to turn it up and not blow speaker and keep signal clean too). Remember this: EVERY speaker 'colors' or shapes the amp output somehow, there is no getting around that (even a 'flat' response has it's own character and 'shape', right?). Keeping that in mind, I'd recommend that you research as much as possible before buying. Consider things like:

What 'types' of sound do you rely on the most? (Clean vs dirty, scooped Fender tones vs bold mid-range tones, type of music played most / most important..?) etc. I have found the old adage about 'you get what you pay for' generally holds true in the realm of speaker replacement/upgrade.

Just my 0.02 / HTH / YMMV

Good luck, let us know what you do.. (it might help others thinking of doing the same)

 

[eddiewagner]

Sell it!

 

[T Prior]

thx to all, I am well aware of impedance and load rating. ( former tech here glad I don't repair anymore !)

NO I'm not gonna sell it ! LOL

I did notice as mentioned above that the CLEAN setting has a bit more BASS response so i did roll it back a tad, but when I go to the front pup, I want the bottom end.

I did a side by side with an Emmi 12, Legend and a Celestion G12P-80 which is in the cab I use with the Dr Z Maz 38. Both had improved bottom end and the Celestion had improved gain. Both are 8 ohms loads.

Noticeable bottom end farting going back to the BOSS speaker which leads me to the conclusion that its either a much cheaper speaker ( $250 amp) or the former owner was pretending he was Pete Townshend !

Now I do recognize that this is a $250 amp new and its not realistic to perform a side by side comparison with a HR Deville or a Maz 38 ! I get it. LOL

If I can clean it up just a tad I will be a happy camper, if GC offers me any sort of incentive ( financial) to not return it, then that would even be better.

Its not like I don't have half dozen 12's sittin around here waiting for an amp ! and yeah I have to confirm load impedance.

The amps purpose is for at least 2 X Duo gigs each month, moderate volume, small space, quick load in load out. Its replacing my early issue Blue Jr which I have always struggled with finding balanced tones. A good performer though.

 

[Laxy picker]

I have a kat 50 first generation. I had the same problem with the lower frequencies from the stock speaker. I swapped it out for Jenson mod 70. I was pleased with the results.
I also did some testing on the before and after using a oscillating frequency generator at the same db's and settings to check the different speakers. I posted those results in the fb katakana owners group maybe 2 years ago. I definitely to my ear had gains in bass and treble, less speaker break up and way tighter lows.
Here is a picture of my little gig set up.

 

[Laxy picker]

Also it requires a 4ohm speaker or they are known to burn out.

 

[PhredE]

thx to all, I am well aware of impedance and load rating. ( former tech here glad I don't repair anymore !)

NO I'm not gonna sell it ! LOL

I did notice as mentioned above that the CLEAN setting has a bit more BASS response so i did roll it back a tad, but when I go to the front pup, I want the bottom end.

I did a side by side with an Emmi 12, Legend and a Celestion G12P-80 which is in the cab I use with the Dr Z Maz 38. Both had improved bottom end and the Celestion had improved gain. Both are 8 ohms loads.

Noticeable bottom end farting going back to the BOSS speaker which leads me to the conclusion that its either a much cheaper speaker ( $250 amp) or the former owner was pretending he was Pete Townshend !

Now I do recognize that this is a $250 amp new and its not realistic to perform a side by side comparison with a HR Deville or a Maz 38 ! I get it. LOL

If I can clean it up just a tad I will be a happy camper, if GC offers me any sort of incentive ( financial) to not return it, then that would even be better.

Its not like I don't have half dozen 12's sittin around here waiting for an amp ! and yeah I have to confirm load impedance.

The amps purpose is for at least 2 X Duo gigs each month, moderate volume, small space, quick load in load out. Its replacing my early issue Blue Jr which I have always struggled with finding balanced tones. A good performer though.

Apologies, wasn't trying to insult anyone's intelligence

The one thing that is a big hurdle to overcome is the scarcity of info about the stock speaker.
They (Boss) tells you something like 'a special design 12" speaker'.. which.tells.me.NOTHING!

Well, good luck just the same. I'll bet you weren't the first and won't be the last to encounter this situation with that type of amp.

Edit:

https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-PA310-8-12-Pro-Woofer-295-032

Pluses: unlimited power handling, good freq. curve for guitar modeling (nearly perfectly flat -- you'll be hearing nothing but the amp), very clean if 'uncolored' sound, cost ($72).

Minuses: size (magnet may be too big), weight (you'll be lugging an extra 8-10lbs around),
impedance 8 ohm only.

 

[Laxy picker]

On another note here is a Amazon spinner suitcase that I foam padded the inside to haul the kat 50 and my accessories for gigging. Keeps it safe and secure.

 

[Dacious]

thx to all, I am well aware of impedance and load rating. ( former tech here glad I don't repair anymore !)

NO I'm not gonna sell it ! LOL

I did notice as mentioned above that the CLEAN setting has a bit more BASS response so i did roll it back a tad, but when I go to the front pup, I want the bottom end.

I did a side by side with an Emmi 12, Legend and a Celestion G12P-80 which is in the cab I use with the Dr Z Maz 38. Both had improved bottom end and the Celestion had improved gain. Both are 8 ohms loads.

Noticeable bottom end farting going back to the BOSS speaker which leads me to the conclusion that its either a much cheaper speaker ( $250 amp) or the former owner was pretending he was Pete Townshend !

Now I do recognize that this is a $250 amp new and its not realistic to perform a side by side comparison with a HR Deville or a Maz 38 ! I get it. LOL

If I can clean it up just a tad I will be a happy camper, if GC offers me any sort of incentive ( financial) to not return it, then that would even be better.

Its not like I don't have half dozen 12's sittin around here waiting for an amp ! and yeah I have to confirm load impedance.

The amps purpose is for at least 2 X Duo gigs each month, moderate volume, small space, quick load in load out. Its replacing my early issue Blue Jr which I have always struggled with finding balanced tones. A good performer though.

I think you have it right. It's a $250 amp.

I think my bandmste did mention it took a bit of tweaking to sort it. He plays a Squier Tele Deluxe. It's got a tendency to muddiness.

 

[Laxy picker]

The 50's use a 4 ohm and the 100's use a 8 ohm. A 8 ohm in the 50 will fry the amp.

 

[T Prior]

The 50's use a 4 ohm and the 100's use a 8 ohm. A 8 ohm in the 50 will fry the amp.

That is what I understand, but Professor Google can't find a definitive answer on BOSS specifications. There are many users swinging both ways, 4 or 8 , many have been using 8 ohm speakers for years with no issues.


Typically, for SS amps, going HIGHER in ohms values , doubling , such as 4 to 8, does not effect the output section other than maybe losing some total gain. Going LOWER however , such as 4 to 2 , can place too much stress on the output drivers causing undue heat and current draw.

I have several 8 ohm speakers that read DC resistance between 5.5 and 8 ohms. 8 ohm speakers should read between 5.1 and 8.

The speaker in the Katana measures 4.8 ohms which makes it very HIGH resistance , above the speaker OHMS rating ! It should read between 2 and 4 ohms Very ODD. another thought is that it is indeed an 8 OHM speaker with a semi fried coil. It should not measure above 4 ohms.

As luck would have it, I have another 4 ohm / 12 from one of my PV Steel guitar amps. It measures 3.5 ohms, so I'm going use it. Its going to add 3 or 4 pounds to the amp which IS NOT going to make me happy ! IF it doesn't make all that much difference in the long run, Ill go back to the Katana speaker and live with it.

 

[T Prior]

Apologies, wasn't trying to insult anyone's intelligence

.

Not an issue, never crossed my mind.

 

[T Prior]

Ok last update- off to the races. First, I spoke with GC, they know there is some problem , they trying are to work out something so I don't return the amp, as its not good for either of us.

Second, I replaced the speaker, (took about 5 min) with the PV ( Eminence) 12/ 4 ohm, that I had from a Nashville 112 Steel amp. It added about 4 LBS to the amp but it appears that the bottom end farting is long gone. I believe that this is a 100 watt rated speaker for the 80 watt Nashville 112. The magnet on this puppy makes the Katana speaker magnet look like a toddler ! the test is at the next gig which I think is next weekend. But playing at a good level in the 50 watt clean mode off the front PUP, its pretty darn good. I had to roll back the Bass as now its too much , even for me.

so far so good

over and out